On TRT, Now With Defy - Labs and Protocol

cja-
Been off methadone since 4/2014 after 12 long, agonizing years of that nonsense. Do your thing man. If that's what it takes to stay off smack, so be it. Did Suboxone for one year after the methadone and it saved my life! Have you looked into it? I've read lots of encouraging reports on Ibogaine and will be interesting to see how that plays out. I'm 45 and age also played with hormones but the main culprit was the junk. Your a client at the methadone clinic, not a patient. It's not in their interest to have you stop if you pay out of pocket.

Like you, I sure hope there is a way to get the dopamine receptors back on line!! Been doing a lot of research and it looks like good ole time, healthy life style and just being in a better "place" is what slowly brings them around. We just may have to accept and be grateful for what's left in the pleasure feeling area.

I'm glad your here. Stay with it and do your thing. Best advice I could give you about TRT--patience my friend. We didn't get this way overnight and shouldn't expect it to get better that quickly either. It does get better!

Regarding neurotransmitters this is an interesting read!

zojo360 said:

cja-
Been off methadone since 4/2014 after 12 long, agonizing years of that nonsense. Do your thing man. If that's what it takes to stay off smack, so be it. Did Suboxone for one year after the methadone and it saved my life! Have you looked into it? I've read lots of encouraging reports on Ibogaine and will be interesting to see how that plays out. I'm 45 and age also played with hormones but the main culprit was the junk. Your a client at the methadone clinic, not a patient. It's not in their interest to have you stop if you pay out of pocket.

Like you, I sure hope there is a way to get the dopamine receptors back on line!! Been doing a lot of research and it looks like good ole time, healthy life style and just being in a better "place" is what slowly brings them around. We just may have to accept and be grateful for what's left in the pleasure feeling area.

I'm glad your here. Stay with it and do your thing. Best advice I could give you about TRT--patience my friend. We didn't get this way overnight and shouldn't expect it to get better that quickly either. It does get better!

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It was only recently that I got serious about getting of methadone. I began getting anxiety when out in public, particularly in Wal-Mart. At first I blamed it on the coffee and dough-nuts we would get on the trip. (Little back story here, I live in the country so we make a weekly trip Sunday as a family. Stopping for coffee and breakfast.) Eventually I put the blame on methadone, when in all likeliness it was the lack of testosterone. This got me to drop from 110mg to 80mg in one fell swoop! I felt horrible for nearly a month too. Work was bad as we have a Morning Meeting, and it felt as if everyone knew what I was going through and taking the opportunity to make me feel even worse. Today I know this was all in my head, and while others may have wondered what was wrong, it was due to my own actions. Anyway, I have searched Suboxone but they want me down to 35mg to let me onto the program. I hope now that my testosterone levels will be normal, I will be able to continue dropping the methadone dosage down again. What mg did you have to get down too before getting on the Suboxone? Can I ask why it takes a year to wean off of Suboxone, Ive always assumed it would be much quicker. Forgot too add, Ive been taking methadone for 7 or 8 years now. If I knew now, what I didnt know then, I wouldve found another way. Methadone (for me) is a ruin all drug, legal or not, its one thing I regret most in my life! And you hit the nail right on the head, I am a client, not a patient. There is no "plan" by these clinics to wean anyone off at all. I transferred to my current clinic 6 years ago, I have never once seen the Dr there. Nobody acknowledges my attempts to wean myself off, the counselors all tell me I am great now, and to remain this way I must remain on methadone. Its really quite depressing...

On a positive note, last weekend I took the family to the Monster Trucks! We all had a good time. For me it was the first time that being out in public was easy. In fact I didnt even realize it until we got home and the wife mentioned how good I did around all those people. And just 2 days ago the wife and I went down to Galveston Beach without the kids. We havent spent quality time together like that in years! This is all contributed to TRT, I would have never been able to do these things 6 months ago.

madman said:

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Regarding neurotransmitters this is an interesting read!

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Didnt read the whole book, but did find a breakdown of what the book teaches. It does seem rather interesting!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/59029/happy-chemicals.pdf

cja said:

I began getting anxiety when out in public, particularly in Wal-Mart.

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Sounds pretty common. Walmart always gives me anxiety.
I'm just kidding, glad you're feeling better!

cja--
You completely expressed my feelings in regards to knowing now vs. back then. I'd have never started that madness. Imo, methadone needs a serious overhaul and intense scrutiny. It may be helping some but in the long run, not really. Then again, being in recovery, I always try to put things into perspective. I'm here today and in a better place due to EVERYTHING that has happened. Take out one variable and I may not be writing these words. Life is really something amazing and how it all plays out. I'm truly grateful.
I got so fed up that I stopped 210mgs cold turkey with the acceptance of death. Between the years of low testosterone and methadone, I simply gave up on life and prepared myself for the worst. Thinking back it still causes me to get emotional realizing in what a dark place I existed. Another subject altogether. In a nutshell, I checked myself to a psychiatric ward, refused the methadone, got severely sick and was given the suboxone to keep serious damage at bay. I can only describe it as an awakening. You can indeed wean off quickly but after I went through I figured what was 12 more months in the big picture of life? One month of healing for every year of bullshit. I wanted to heal and taper slowly. Some choose even longer.

I'm assuming Galveston, TX. What a beautiful place! Lived on the beach for 4 months trying to find my way.

Being on TRT and with time you'll see life for what it can be. Like it should be. Family, friends, work, good times and bad will all become better.

zojo360

I do agree, better scrutiny for sure. There should be laws in place to explain all side effects, short and long, including the addiction. I cant even begin to imagine what a 210mg cold turkey stop was like. My drop of 30mg had me feeling horrible, when I would stop moving, my equilibrium was so messed up I felt as if I was still moving! I am going to look into Suboxone again, having dropped myself down to 60mg I am nearing the 35mg threshold they require.

Yes, Galveston, TX. It was great being there during the cooler months. We missed all the parades, left before all the Mardi Gras began. It was more about relaxing and catching up on lost time

It gives me great hope to read your words, Thank you for sharing them with me.

The only thing worse for your endocrine system than methadone is Suboxone. Suboxone is fine if used for a few weeks to get clean. Maintenance Suboxone is to be avoided like the plague. I took it for six months and getting off it was a nightmare. For a variety of reasons I was unwilling to do an eight month taper. I jumped from a low dose and was acutely dope sick for a month...Not 96 hours...But a month of living hell. Suboxone is poison for the endocrine system if used for more than a few weeks.

meelord said:

The only thing worse for your endocrine system than methadone is Suboxone. Suboxone is fine if used for a few weeks to get clean. Maintenance Suboxone is to be avoided like the plague. I took it for six months and getting off it was a nightmare. For a variety of reasons I was unwilling to do an eight month taper. I jumped from a low dose and was acutely dope sick for a month...Not 96 hours...But a month of living hell. Suboxone is poison for the endocrine system if used for more than a few weeks.

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So you made the jump from methadone to suboxone? i am curious, as the last 70mg I have dropped from methadone I have done so with suboxone as a goal once I get to 35mg methadone. I am currently at 60mg methadone (daily) and I have been here for too long, it is time to lower again, 55mg is my next move. About a year ago I was taking 110mg of methadone, but between this dose, and the Low T levels I had horrible anxiety that would come on at the strangest times. I swear to it that Florescent Lighting would "trigger" these attacks. They would occur in WalMart, Lowes, and my work place, all with Florescent Lighting, and a lot of people, so who knows. Anyway, reading your post kinda dampens the mood, can you share more of your experience please. Time on methadone, dose, time it took o get to that magic number of 35mg to switch to suboxone. Also were you on TRT during this phase of methadone taper and suboxone taper? Thanks

This is very interesting to see mention of Methadone and Suboxone here. In my "past life" I got myself into a mess with pain pills, after a rough knee reconstruction and wound up on suboxone "maintenance therapy". This is something I deeply regret. I was on that stuff for 5 years. This so-called maintenance therapy is insane. Suboxone is a very powerful opiate with a very long half life and as a result your opiate receptors are flooded 24x7. What do you think happens when our opiate receptors are flooded non stop for years? It's not a good thing, and when one stops, the body takes a long while to begin making its own endorphins. This is conveniently not mentioned by the prescribing Drs or the fancy marketing literature. The Drs who prescribe it are effectively legal drug dealers. (The vast majority of these Drs insist on cash only and good luck with insurance -- this is usually a $300-$500 per month expense.). Sure, the first couple years is great but this drug will mess up your brain chemistry bad and you will feel it "eventually" in the form of becoming emotionally numb. Suboxone is an excellent detox tool, meaning for short term use, but to be on it long term is insane.

its very very tough to get off of the stuff! I tried a couple cold turkey attempts but I got very intense restless leg syndrome where I literally thought I was being tortured. Others have different experiences but none of them are pleasant. I finally was able to get off that stuff after doing a 7 month taper, and for a good portion of that time I felt like crap. Yes, that's right, 7 months. It honestly took a good 6 months later to start to feel somewhat normal and I suspect it is because my brain chemistry was so messed up by not producing endorphins due to all its receptors being flooded for so long.

Ive been off that stuff for a few years now and my past opiate problems are long gone. When I see mention of suboxone, it brings bad very bad memories. Life is infinitely better being totally free of this heavy opiate use. If I had to go back and do it again, I wouldn't.

Methadone Maintenance does the same thing as the Suboxone does to our bodies. You are also 100% correct, they do not tell you of these side effects, nor listen when you try to talk to them about it. At my clinic, they had a new counsellor who actually encouraged a few of us to get off the program. A month later he was fired! His replacement says we are better off on methadone, as we no longer have to search for the dope man, we just see them once per month! I wish the US had Ibogaine clinics, living in Texas I have thought long and hard about driving to Mexico for this treatment.

I'm adding these threads about LDN. I've never tried LDN, but thought it looked interesting.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?8880-Where-to-buy-Low-Dose-Naltrexone-with-no-script
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7567-Low-Dose-Naltrexone

Vince said:

I'm adding these threads about LDN. I've never tried LDN, but thought it looked interesting.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?8880-Where-to-buy-Low-Dose-Naltrexone-with-no-script
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7567-Low-Dose-Naltrexone

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this is the killer in switching from methadone to naltrexone

To reduce the risk of precipitated withdrawal, patients are warned to abstain from illegal opioids and opioid medication for a minimum of 7-10 days before starting naltrexone. If switching from methadone to naltrexone, the patient has to be completely withdrawn from the opioids.

source https://www.samhsa.gov/medication-assisted-treatment/treatment/naltrexone

cja, thanks for explaining that.

I decided to drop 5mgs of my methadone this morning, now down to 55mg daily
How it works for me, Ill feel a bit off for 3 or 4 days, then it will be harder to sleep for about 2 weeks. After this time I should be adjusted to the drop. I have to kick this thing, it has been far too long, every month they collect $300 of my hard earned money. All for something I do not even need any more. I have ZERO desire to find my way back to Pills or Heroin. I see addicts daily and feel compassion for them. But I also know IF they wanted help, there IS help to be had.