4 month labs Defy

My 3 month labs are here

Since my 3 month labs I stopped DHEA and the nurse at Defy saw my last post and had me start .25 Arimidex twice a week with test shot but still on 60mg test e3.5d and 250 iu HCG Monday, Wednesday and Friday - Labs below are from this protocol after 4 weeks.

I had my follow up with Defy two days ago and they adjusted protocol to 50mg test e3.5d and 250 iu HCG Monday, Wednesday, Friday and .5 Arimidex with test shot. Defy also said to start Dim and DHEA at 10mg/dy but I might wait one more month for that as I don't want to make too many changes at once. They want new labs in 4 weeks.

I'm a little suprised my E2 didn't drop with the Ai after 4 weeks and now i'm concerned about low SHBG although the nurse at Defy I spoke to two days ago said it should go up with the reduction in test dose as test goes down shbg goes up, is this true? -This is the first time i've got SHBG lab so no baseline.

The main symtpoms before trt were fatigue, no libido, brain fog, also poor sleep and anxiety that I'm not sure are from low test or not. All symptoms are about 90% better except the brain fog and anxiety are just slightly improved. The only new symptoms are itchy nipples but not bad or often at all and I started my cut 3 weeks ago and seem to be having a real hard time dropping any weight. I have cut probably 8 times and usually drop 2 lbs a week and the first several weeks are pretty easy but this time the first 3 weeks seem like the last 3 weeks of my cut. I have always had a hard time putting on muscle even though I lift 6 days a week for 1-1.5hr and so far TRT hasen't helped with this but maybe once I get dialed in. I still get morning wood but libido has decreased some in the last several weeks(to be fair my libido was off the charts for a few weeks so maybe it's just normal now) and erections seem softer than normal sometimes.

Labs were done just before my next test shot.

Any thoughts?


COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL TP
GLUCOSE 81 65-99 mg/dL
UREA NITROGEN (BUN) 24 7-25 mg/dL
CREATININE 1.08 0.60-1.35 mg/dL
eGFR NON-AFR. AMERICAN 87 > OR = 60 mL/min/1.73m2
eGFR AFRICAN AMERICAN 100 > OR = 60 mL/min/1.73m2
BUN/CREATININE RATIO NOT APPLICABLE 6-22 (calc)
SODIUM 136 135-146 mmol/L
POTASSIUM 4.6 3.5-5.3 mmol/L
CHLORIDE 99 98-110 mmol/L
CARBON DIOXIDE 27 20-31 mmol/L
CALCIUM 9.3 8.6-10.3 mg/dL
PROTEIN, TOTAL 6.5 6.1-8.1 g/dL
ALBUMIN 4.6 3.6-5.1 g/dL
GLOBULIN 1.9 1.9-3.7 g/dL (calc)
ALBUMIN/GLOBULIN RATIO 2.4 1.0-2.5 (calc)
BILIRUBIN, TOTAL 0.7 0.2-1.2 mg/dL
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 56 40-115 U/L
AST 26 10-40 U/L
ALT 30 9-46 U/L
CBC (INCLUDES DIFF/PLT) TP
WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 4.4 3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 5.26 4.20-5.80 Million/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 16.1 13.2-17.1 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 49.0 38.5-50.0 %
MCV 93.0 80.0-100.0 fL
MCH 30.6 27.0-33.0 pg
MCHC 33.0 32.0-36.0 g/dL
RDW 14.7 11.0-15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 209 140-400 Thousand/uL
MPV 10.4 7.5-11.5 fL
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS 2636 1500-7800 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES 1210 850-3900 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES 321 200-950 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHILS 216 15-500 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS 18 0-200 cells/uL
NEUTROPHILS 59.9 %
LYMPHOCYTES 27.5 %
MONOCYTES 7.3 %
EOSINOPHILS 4.9 %
BASOPHILS 0.4 %
DHEA SULFATE 288 106-464 mcg/dL TP
PROLACTIN 9.7 2.0-18.0 ng/mL TP
TSH 2.18 0.40-4.50 mIU/L TP
SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN 14 10-50 nmol/L TP
ESTRADIOL, ULTRASENSITIVE LC/MS/MS 61 H < OR = 29 pg/mL EZ
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE, LC/MS/MS 52 16-79 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, LC/MS/MS 1222 H 250-1100 ng/dL
FREE TESTOSTERONE 337.3 H 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

So you've been taking AI at .25 E3.5D and saw ZERO change in E2 levels?

It's a bit confusing how you worded when you started the AI but I'm pretty sure you said you've been on it 4 weeks.

Yes 4 weeks and zero improvement. Strange right?

wemmington said:

Yes 4 weeks and zero improvement. Strange right?

Click to expand...

No other changes in your protocol? Just the addition of an AI?

I can't believe it, especially with pharmaceutical grade.

Obviously you're a non-responder to adex.

johndoesmith said:

No other changes in your protocol? Just the addition of an AI?

I can't believe it, especially with pharmaceutical grade.

Obviously you're a non-responder to adex.

Click to expand...

I also stopped taking DHEA, I was taking 50mg eod and my DHEA went up to 520 so I stopped that for 4 weeks as well and it came down to 288 but I didn't think that would raise me e2, if anything I thought it would drop it.

I think your issue is low shbg, surprised Defy missed that. You likely need less testosterone EOD. Your free T is through the roof. Using a lower dosage at EOD. You will likely not need a AI.

You noted it was your first SHBG value; what was said about your posting a reading of 14?

CoastWatcher said:

You noted it was your first SHBG value; what was said about your posting a reading of 14?

Click to expand...

The lady at Defy went though all other labs and asked if I had any questions so I asked about the SHBG and she kind of replied like no big deal since were lowering the test to 50mg e3.5d the SHBG will come up as the testosterone comes down.

Zooka15 said:

I think your issue is low shbg, surprised Defy missed that. You likely need less testosterone EOD. Your free T is through the roof. Using a lower dosage at EOD. You will likely not need a AI.

Click to expand...

I've heard about eod being better for low shbg guys, do you think I should call Defy and ask if I can do eod or should I keep doing what they suggested for 4 weeks and then maybe go to eod if necessary? Is there any down side to eod vs e3.5 days?

wemmington said:

I also stopped taking DHEA, I was taking 50mg eod and my DHEA went up to 520 so I stopped that for 4 weeks as well and it came down to 288 but I didn't think that would raise me e2, if anything I thought it would drop it.

Click to expand...

Stopping DHEA would lower your E2 theoretically, but you've seen zero change in E2(I think your other E2 level was the same number?) so I don't think DHEA has anything to do with it.

I've heard about eod being better for low shbg guys, do you think I should call Defy and ask if I can do eod or should I keep doing what they suggested for 4 weeks and then maybe go to eod if necessary? Is there any down side to eod vs e3.5 days?

Click to expand...

Give them a call and ask. They're really reasonable.

The downside is more injections, more needles, more puncturing of your vial, and possibly more loss of oil if you're not using low dead space syringes or insulin syringes.

@ Wemmington. Hi there, this is Melissa, Dr Saya's PA. PM me your phone number so I can call you and we can discuss/make some changes to your regimen if needed

First let me say that Melissa at Defy is awesome! She saw this thread and called me last night and we made quite a few change to my protocol.

So i'm going to start with 35mg test eod and .15 arimidex eod with shot, also changed the HCG to 150 iu HCG Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

I'm going to check with Melissa later on the test dose tho as I thought we were still trying to total 100mg/wk just split up into eod dose but with 35mg eod that works out to 122.5/wk if I did the math right. I think 29mg or 30mg would be closer to 100/wk, either way I feel good about the change and I'll post 4 week follow up labs as soon as I get them.

wemmington said:

First let me say that Melissa at Defy is awesome! She saw this thread and called me last night and we made quite a few change to my protocol.

So i'm going to start with 35mg test eod and .15 arimidex eod with shot, also changed the HCG to 150 iu HCG Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

I'm going to check with Melissa later on the test dose tho as I thought we were still trying to total 100mg/wk just split up into eod dose but with .35 eod that works out to 1.225/wk if I did the math right. I think 28mg or 30mg would be closer to 100/wk, either way I feel good about the change and I'll post 4 week follow up labs as soon as I get them.

Click to expand...

Awesome. Yeah I've had a concern, much more minor, and she gave me a call back in a few hours. It was about ferritin and iron and such. She ordered an iron panel, told me 99% chance it's nothing, and she was right. My ferritin has climbed to 50 from 25 since then.

35mg EOD would be 122.5mg per week according to my calculations.

Double check though as that difference can be significant.