Switched to a daily protocol, experiencing joint pain and random aches now. Is this temporary?

chasedat · Jan 3, 2017

Hi guys,

I'm about 2 weeks in on my daily protocol now. 22mg daily. Total cumulative of about 154mg weekly. l was previously taking 90mg e3.5d with a total weekly cumulative of 180 mg.

On my 90mg e3.5d my total T was 1497. estradiol (not sensitive, it's unavailable in this country) was 64.
No major negative side effects. I did however feel like I'd benefit from lower estrogen. My mood wasn't the best, and my libido could use improvement. Physically, I felt great though. I was maybe a little more emotional than I should had been. Nothing major.

My SHBG has always been low. Was around 13. I wanted to combat this by attempting a daily protocol. I also want to maintain the most stable levels possible. I have the time and wherewithal to maintain a daily protocol, and the folks who have tried it have had great success with it. So I want to give it a try.

There are no doctors in this country that have any idea what they're doing in regards to TRT. I know a few locals who are on TRT and they can't seem to find a decent doctor either. I'm in Philippines by the way. So my point is, I'm on my own. I've been on my own for 7 months since I started TRT and am doing heavy research and being safe of course.

So, 2 weeks in on my daily protocol. I'm experiencing joint pain. Especially in my knees. Woke up with a sore neck this morning, and just have general aches and pains for no reason. This all happened frequently back before I started TRT. I was sore all the time. On my 90mg e3.5d protocol, I never experienced this.
Now, the only time I've heard of folks having issues like this is when they crash their estrogen by taking too much of an AI. I'm not taking an AI.

Has anybody experienced this before? Specifically when switching to a daily protocol? Should it be temporary until things balance out? My total weekly cumulative will me 26mg less than my e3.5d weekly cumulative I had going prior. However, it's my understanding that less is more when on a daily protocol.

I appreciate any input fellas. Back when I was brand new, I crashed my levels. It was awful. I spiraled into depression and it was an over all bad time. I just want to be sure this doesn't happen again

Vince Carter · Jan 4, 2017

2 weeks after a major change, it's not just daily from E3.5D but you changed the cumulative dose. I would expect at about this time it's going to get a little bumpy for you as you adjust. I found on daily that I had to use the same amount each day, im doing 28mg, I didn't find that I could use less Cyp on daily and my test timing is very important. If I say test even 25 or 26 hours post injection my Test falls way off. I tend to inject at 5am and my blood draw is 830am, it has a real impact on my numbers.

CoastWatcher · Jan 4, 2017

I've been injecting on a daily basis for 18 months and am pleased with the results. I, too, had an estradiol level that had risen to a point that action had to be taken. In my case, daily, morning injections did what I hoped they'd do - brought estradiol into line and created true, steady-state testosterone levels

I'm not surprised that you're feeling less than your best during the first two weeks of your new protocol. My doctor told me, and Dr. Saya has written here, to expect a period of time where you don't feel "great." Your serum levels are in transition. In my own case, I experienced periods of sweating, both day and evening, passing headache, and transient muscle cramping. Six weeks passed before I really felt settled.

You wrote that your total testosterone was measured at 1497 with "no major negative side effects;" is that a trough reading, captured just prior to an injection? It's a very high level. What about your hematocrit and hemoglobin - what did your last CBC show?

chasedat · Jan 4, 2017

Vince Carter said:
I found on daily that I had to use the same amount each day, im doing 28mg, I didn't find that I could use less Cyp on daily and my test timing is very important

Interesting, so in your particular case, the theory of "less is more" on a daily injection protocol didn't work out that way for you? I considered 25mg daily as opposed to 22mg. This way my weekly cumulative would be the near the same as my e3.5d protocol. Landing me at 175 a week on daily as opposed to the 180 a week on e3.5d. The fact that my estrogen was kind of high, (granted not sensitive testing) and my mood slightly reflected high estrogen symptoms, I did not want to risk a daily protocol nearing the same weekly cumulative when it has been said daily protocol could raise T numbers (and in turn raising estrogen as well) and potentially cause additional high estrogen problems.

So, after talking with some folks who have had success with 20mg daily, and taking into consideration how I felt at a weekly cumulative of 180, as well as taking into consideration the potential of "less being more" on a daily protocol, I felt like 22mg daily would be a safe happy medium to try out. Admittedly, these random pains I'm having are making me a touch nervous. So I'm hoping it's just a period of adjustment. All in all, it's only a drop of 26mg in the weekly cumulative though. So I'm probably worrying for nothing

.

CoastWatcher said:
You wrote that your total testosterone was measured at 1497 with "no major negative side effects;" is that a trough reading, captured just prior to an injection? It's a very high level. What about your hematocrit and hemoglobin - what did your last CBC show?

Yes that was trough. and my CBC has always been good. Hematocrit was at 47, and hemoglobin at 16g/dL
And yep the T level was pretty high. I think I'll benefit from a little bit lower. Hoping my most recent protocol is the key. The high estrogen that came along with the high T level was effecting my mood negatively a bit. Nothing too bad, but definitely apparent. . No physical symptoms. Even the back acne I had subsided as time went on at the high levels. Actually has come back on my new protocol. So must just be general hormone fluctuations causing it.

I'm glad to hear that your symptoms eventually settled around 6 weeks. Gives me hope that I didn't necessarily make a mistake by starting this protocol. I also believed these symptoms could be simply from my body adjusting. Everybody attributes (understandably) my symptoms to an estrogen crash. But I'm not taking any estrogen blockers. So it must just be my estrogen fluctuating in general.

Frustrating right now! I was going to the gym pretty frequently before this, now it's uncomfortable to walk much less work out. But I'll look forward to it potentially subsiding in the coming weeks

chasedat · Jan 4, 2017

Vince Carter said:
I tend to inject at 5am and my blood draw is 830am, it has a real impact on my numbers.

By taking your blood test after your injection instead of right before, aren't you getting inaccurate blood levels? Wouldn't you want to see your lowest blood level point?

Wouldn't you want to take your blood test 23 hours, give or take an hour, after your injection on a daily protocol?

Nyce · Mar 10, 2018

Hey just wanted to ask if tiubjave had any improvement since stopping the ai

Nyce · Mar 11, 2018

chasedat said:
Interesting, so in your particular case, the theory of "less is more" on a daily injection protocol didn't work out that way for you? I considered 25mg daily as opposed to 22mg. This way my weekly cumulative would be the near the same as my e3.5d protocol. Landing me at 175 a week on daily as opposed to the 180 a week on e3.5d. The fact that my estrogen was kind of high, (granted not sensitive testing) and my mood slightly reflected high estrogen symptoms, I did not want to risk a daily protocol nearing the same weekly cumulative when it has been said daily protocol could raise T numbers (and in turn raising estrogen as well) and potentially cause additional high estrogen problems.

So, after talking with some folks who have had success with 20mg daily, and taking into consideration how I felt at a weekly cumulative of 180, as well as taking into consideration the potential of "less being more" on a daily protocol, I felt like 22mg daily would be a safe happy medium to try out. Admittedly, these random pains I'm having are making me a touch nervous. So I'm hoping it's just a period of adjustment. All in all, it's only a drop of 26mg in the weekly cumulative though. So I'm probably worrying for nothing .

Yes that was trough. and my CBC has always been good. Hematocrit was at 47, and hemoglobin at 16g/dL
And yep the T level was pretty high. I think I'll benefit from a little bit lower. Hoping my most recent protocol is the key. The high estrogen that came along with the high T level was effecting my mood negatively a bit. Nothing too bad, but definitely apparent. . No physical symptoms. Even the back acne I had subsided as time went on at the high levels. Actually has come back on my new protocol. So must just be general hormone fluctuations causing it.

I'm glad to hear that your symptoms eventually settled around 6 weeks. Gives me hope that I didn't necessarily make a mistake by starting this protocol. I also believed these symptoms could be simply from my body adjusting. Everybody attributes (understandably) my symptoms to an estrogen crash. But I'm not taking any estrogen blockers. So it must just be my estrogen fluctuating in general.

Frustrating right now! I was going to the gym pretty frequently before this, now it's uncomfortable to walk much less work out. But I'll look forward to it potentially subsiding in the coming weeks

Any updates since stopping the ai.

Switched to a daily protocol, experiencing joint pain and random aches now. Is this temporary?

chasedat

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Vince Carter

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