20 yo on TRT. Gyno or just sensitive nipples?

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CoastWatcher

Moderator
I suppose you're right about the "fantastic insurance". Clearly it isn't benefiting me in anyway...
I will get in contact with Defymedical and Primebody. They both seem very professional and look forward to fixing this mess of a situation. I'm confident they can help me get down to the bottom of this.
Seriously, CoastWatcher. I can't give you enough thanks for the advice and pointing me in the right direction. I'm sure you are beyond irritated with the lack of comprehension from the general practitioners. I am prime example of a bad situation when it comes to this sort of thing. I feel like a guinea pig in a way.

Thank you for the kind words. Believe it or not, your isn't the worst protocol that has been prescribed, my own initial efforts at TRT were pretty bad. You may have had the worst workup, however! We have to become our own advocates - as you're doing now.
 
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john_europe

New Member
Hi LatMan,

my situation is similar to yours, I'm in week 3 of TRT, 125e5d of test E, also no HCG/AI, age 27 and I'm experiencing symptoms of gyno (I think). My right nipple is itching and tingling, I'm constantly checking for lumbs now.. so far I'm good. Getting an AI from my doc would take at least another month, because he refuses to do bloodwork/adjust my protocol before week 6, anytime sooner is a waste of money according to him, because it takes time for the body to adjust. I'm freaked out now that in 4 weeks it could already be too late and I'm stuck with irreversible gyno by then, so I'm thinking of taking an AI before that on my own...
How is your gyno situation developing? Still sensitive nips? Have you adjusted your protocol?
 

Vince

Super Moderator
TRT can increase nipple size and sensitivity. Some men love this and some hate it. This has nothing to do with gyno.

 

LatMan96

New Member
Hi LatMan,

my situation is similar to yours, I'm in week 3 of TRT, 125e5d of test E, also no HCG/AI, age 27 and I'm experiencing symptoms of gyno (I think). My right nipple is itching and tingling, I'm constantly checking for lumbs now.. so far I'm good. Getting an AI from my doc would take at least another month, because he refuses to do bloodwork/adjust my protocol before week 6, anytime sooner is a waste of money according to him, because it takes time for the body to adjust. I'm freaked out now that in 4 weeks it could already be too late and I'm stuck with irreversible gyno by then, so I'm thinking of taking an AI before that on my own...
How is your gyno situation developing? Still sensitive nips? Have you adjusted your protocol?

hello, John. Great to hear from you, but I'm sorry about your situation. I'm still experiencing the sensation in the nipples, but thankfully none in my pre-existing gyno glands. It seems as though some men experience more sensitivity than others. That being said, I'm keeping a VERY close eye on it, and am getting new bloods drawn very soon. I am still on 200 mgs Test C once a week.
 

LatMan96

New Member
Hey guys, just an update here. Sorry for bringing this thread to life again, but I feel as though people my age may be able to benefit and receive some insight. I found a very responsible and knowledgeable Endo who I am currently working with. I received my blood test after coming off test for a total of 2.5 months. (she wanted to make sure that the test C had run its course for accurate blood results. for obvious reasons.) I was literally just sent the results, so my endo has yet to get back to me on her thoughts. However, I thought I would share and am curious to know y'alls thoughts:

estradiol: 18.5 PG/ML
FSH: 1.0 L (Range: 1.5-12.4 IU/L)
LH: 1.5 L (Range: 1.2-8.6 IU/L)
Prolactin: 6.7 NG/ML (Range: 5.0-15.2 NG/ML)
Free T4: .95 NG/DL (Range: .80-1.70 NG/DL)
Free Testosterone: 370 NG/DL (Range: 300-1080 NG/DL)
TSH: 2.43 UIU/ML (Range: .40-4.10 UIU/ML)
Testosterone to Epitestosterone Ratio: 3.0

I find my numbers fairly interesting. Seeing as though my TSH is in fine range, it leads me to believe that maybe something is up in the hypothalamus/pituitary area. FSH and LH are also on the low side. I'm excited to finally start getting to the bottom of this, and begin to feel like a "man" again. I will update as soon as I get a call.

What do y'all think?
 

LatMan96

New Member
I also feel the need to add that I have lost a substantial amount of weight and muscle, despite my training and nutrition staying fairly consistent. Somedays I really feel the "skinny-fat" look coming on.
 

LatMan96

New Member
Which estradiol test was run, sensitive or standard?

It is not mentioned, so I assume standard. There was also no range given. Just <=60 PG/ML, however it does say "Values in the range of 17-25 PG/ML may demonstrate increased imprecision. Clinical correlation is recommended."
 
Hey guys, just an update here. Sorry for bringing this thread to life again, but I feel as though people my age may be able to benefit and receive some insight. I found a very responsible and knowledgeable Endo who I am currently working with. I received my blood test after coming off test for a total of 2.5 months. (she wanted to make sure that the test C had run its course for accurate blood results. for obvious reasons.) I was literally just sent the results, so my endo has yet to get back to me on her thoughts. However, I thought I would share and am curious to know y'alls thoughts:

estradiol: 18.5 PG/ML
FSH: 1.0 L (Range: 1.5-12.4 IU/L)
LH: 1.5 L (Range: 1.2-8.6 IU/L)
Prolactin: 6.7 NG/ML (Range: 5.0-15.2 NG/ML)
Free T4: .95 NG/DL (Range: .80-1.70 NG/DL)
Free Testosterone: 370 NG/DL (Range: 300-1080 NG/DL)
TSH: 2.43 UIU/ML (Range: .40-4.10 UIU/ML)
Testosterone to Epitestosterone Ratio: 3.0

I find my numbers fairly interesting. Seeing as though my TSH is in fine range, it leads me to believe that maybe something is up in the hypothalamus/pituitary area. FSH and LH are also on the low side. I'm excited to finally start getting to the bottom of this, and begin to feel like a "man" again. I will update as soon as I get a call.

What do y'all think?

Interesting she checked the testosterone:epitestosterone ratio, as that is usually only tested for anti-doping testing (i.e. sports related). The WADA cutoff is 4.0, so you fall below that, but still rather high as the "expected" testosterone:epitestosterone ratio for a male NOT on exogenous testosterone is ~1:1.

Your labs show clear secondary/tertiary Hypogonadism with suppressed LH/FSH.
 

bruin

Active Member
I was 25 when I found I had hormone issues and that was 20+ yrs ago, married , unable to conceive, talk about a roller coaster. With today's advances, there are still stone age Dr's practicing, or attempting to, in this specific health field.

Yeah, you need a new Dr, search and find, hold on to him/her as long as possible, no guarantee of a long and healthy relationship.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
It is not mentioned, so I assume standard. There was also no range given. Just <=60 PG/ML, however it does say "Values in the range of 17-25 PG/ML may demonstrate increased imprecision. Clinical correlation is recommended."

You had the wrong test run and can't rely on the reported value (which is a problem if you live outside the United States since access to this test is a challenge for those men who do). However, if you are able to obtain American lab work, either through your doctor or www.discountedlabs.com, order a sensitive LC, MS/MS estradiol test.
 

LatMan96

New Member
Interesting she checked the testosterone:epitestosterone ratio, as that is usually only tested for anti-doping testing (i.e. sports related). The WADA cutoff is 4.0, so you fall below that, but still rather high as the "expected" testosterone:epitestosterone ratio for a male NOT on exogenous testosterone is ~1:1.

Your labs show clear secondary/tertiary Hypogonadism with suppressed LH/FSH.

Thank you for your input. I was very curious to know if anything was clearly wrong. She ran the Epi ratio because I said I had competed in a natural physique bodybuilding show. I am wondering why my ratio wouldn't be one to one though.. interesting.
 
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LatMan96

New Member
If your endo says you need 2.5months for Cyp to clear your system, you should run and never go back there, that's complete...ridiculousness.
interesting, I suppose I need to do some more research on that. This is all such a new realm and experience to me, and finding the right person for my condition has been like finding a needle in a haystack. Thank you for all of your help, Vince! You've given me a lot of insight!
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
If your endo says you need 2.5months for Cyp to clear your system, you should run and never go back there, that's complete...ridiculousness.
A doctor needn't return a patient to a hypogonadal state to manage their protocol and health. Given the possession of pre-therapy labs, accompanied by current labwork and a thorough discussion of symptoms and response, it is standard procedure for a doctor to adjust and move ahead...presuming they are confident and knowledgeable. Patients change their medical provider all the time and aren't put through this.

This is a blinking light, along with the incorrect estradiol test, that you should consider.
 

LatMan96

New Member
I am anticipating a call either later today or tomorrow to see what she diagnosis this blood result as. I will most definitely update asap. I must say that this (for lack of better terms) sucks, to feel the way I do... Again.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
I am anticipating a call either later today or tomorrow to see what she diagnosis this blood result as. I will most definitely update asap. I must say that this (for lack of better terms) sucks, to feel the way I do... Again.
I really am sorry you have to deal with this. Many here at EM have had the experience of initially consulting a doctor who wasn't up to speed in regard to male androgen therapy. It can be a long and painful process, the patient's the one in pain, of course, to obtain the services of a capable physician. But they are out there. If you want a referral we can easily provide one.
 

LatMan96

New Member
Update: got some seriously depressing and upsetting news just now. Despite my numbers being out of whack, and feeling the way I do, my endo told me there is no need for a follow up appointment as everything came back normal according to her "range". And that if anything, I should look into psychiatric help for my ED and loss of interest in sex. At 21, I just feel as though this shouldn't be the case and that it's not "normal" for me to feel this way. I truly feel as though I keep spinning my wheels and going no where. This is really starting to bother me to the point of depression. I'm sorry for sounding dramatic, but I just want help. Thank you all for your words and help.
 

Leesto

Active Member
Update: got some seriously depressing and upsetting news just now. Despite my numbers being out of whack, and feeling the way I do, my endo told me there is no need for a follow up appointment as everything came back normal according to her "range". And that if anything, I should look into psychiatric help for my ED and loss of interest in sex. At 21, I just feel as though this shouldn't be the case and that it's not "normal" for me to feel this way. I truly feel as though I keep spinning my wheels and going no where. This is really starting to bother me to the point of depression. I'm sorry for sounding dramatic, but I just want help. Thank you all for your words and help.

Well that's confirmation that your endo is not competent in the treatment of your condition. I would choose a medical professional with proven expertise in the treatment of people in the same situation as you. The folks on this forum can help you find such a person.

Life can be pretty shitty when things are so out of whack. But it can be fabulous when you get on the right program. I wish you all the best in finding such a program.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
You may be fortunate and find a doctor in your local area who can treat you...but the odds are against you and you'll waste a lot of time going through the hoop-jumping exercises you've been through. There are two excellent, national practices, both are site sponsors, but I am a patient of neither. I have no vested interest in the success of either (but I have a vested interest in our members receiving good care). The biggest question: can you afford to pay for your own care?

Before choking, realize it may not be as expensive as you think. Consider it an investment in the rest of your life. Defy Medical, and their medical director, Dr. Justin Saya, are at the top of the list in this field. They can treat you anywhere you live in the US. Prime Body operates on another, but national, model - they provide cutting-edge care as well.

Call Defy and ask as many blunt questions about cost that you can. They won't dodge. Do the same with Prime Body. You'll get answers. You can get help.
 
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