My journey so far with low testosterone.

Oh and is keeping the E2 at this level safe? Cancer concerns other biological issues etc.

CSI007 said:

Oh and is keeping the E2 at this level safe? Cancer concerns other biological issues etc.

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Long-term studies haven't been performed.

Well just another update. My Doc is on vacation so I am unable to get the AI at this time. I was going to wait a few weeks and get my blood tested one more time to see if the high E2 was a lab mistake. But not only am I seeing the acne increase (though the past week it's not been terribly bad like it was about 3 weeks ago) I feel like my chest is getting bigger and not in a good way. I don't have any hardness (I check frequently) but something does not look or feel right. Also, without getting gross. My pre-*** which has been like a fire hose since starting TRT has all but dried up. Libido is tanking too. The two would go hand in hand, the wind would blow an the faucet would kick on. Also my mood has changed (getting some depression and getting snappy with the wife and kids again) and my memory which had made great strides has started to take a hit. I am searching for my words again and having some difficulty with remembering things again.

So, I am left with this. Do I decrease my dosage back to the 86mg/week and try to bring the E2 down on it's own or do I shoot for the higher T from the 106mg per week I am taking now and reduce the E2 with an AI. I felt OK on the previous dosing. But I wanted to see if more T would help with erections since I was almost totally dependent on the cialis. I know it's important not to chase the numbers but I felt like it was a legitimate attempt to help with the one last piece of my low T puzzle that has not been helped so far.

Thanks guys. Any suggestions?

Any takers?

Think I should give the AI a shot? I know some are against it completely. But I feel like my only other choice is to cut my dose back which will likely bring me back into the upper 500's or low 600s with total T.

CSI007 said:

Any takers?

Think I should give the AI a shot? I know some are against it completely. But I feel like my only other choice is to cut my dose back which will likely bring me back into the upper 500's or low 600s with total T.

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I agree with VC, you should just cut out the hcg before starting an A.I and get retested in 6 weeks that way you will know how it is effecting your e2 and at least you will get an idea of how you feel without hcg. I understand you are fearful of losing the benefits you feel it provides you but 6 weeks without hcg is not going to be the end all be all and you may just end up feeling better and eliminating the issues you feel are related to elevated e2.

It certainly is something to try. And obviously I have never had treatment without HCG. I certainly don't want my guys down there to shrink up. Mentally I just don't think I can handle it. And of course what is it contributing to on the positive side? Since day 1 with injecting T my libido has been fantastic. I don't want to lose that for sure but I have to get the E2 down lower I believe. As each day goes by I am definitely feeling the effects of it.

I just injected 400iu tonight and this is it for this week. Starting Monday maybe I should cut back to around 200iu instead of just cutting it out completely.

Here is another way to look at this and maybe it's totally off base but when I was on HCG mono and taking 400iu EOD my E2 was still mid to lower teens. Can the E2 be the cause of the higher E2 now just with the T added since before it had very little effect on my E2 levels.

After thinking about it, I think I am going to try reducing the HCG down to 200iu twice a week and see where that gets me in 6 weeks.

Was doing more reading on the subject this morning, has anyone had any success with zinc or DIM? Other sites seem to suggest yes but here not so much.

CSI007 said:

After thinking about it, I think I am going to try reducing the HCG down to 200iu twice a week and see where that gets me in 6 weeks.

Was doing more reading on the subject this morning, has anyone had any success with zinc or DIM? Other sites seem to suggest yes but here not so much.

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If DIM was able to manage estradiol as its strongest advocates claim it can, why would any of us take a prescription AI?

Good point.

I just started reading I hope you keep this up its very interesting.

Millere said:

I just started reading I hope you keep this up its very interesting.

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Thank you. I hope there is some useful information in this thread for others.

Started taking 200iu of HCG today. Will retest in 6 weeks again.

Oddly enough, I think the T is beginning to really help with the ED now. I have not taken Tadalafil for almost 2 weeks and have managed successful intercourse for three straight days. It's not perfect in that department but functional. Ek.... Can't believe I am talking about this. But, for those wondering, please have patience when it comes to this area, it may take 6 to 8 months. I am now a bit worried about decreasing the HCG but I feel like it's got to be done for now to see if it helps with the higher E2 numbers.

CSI007 said:

Started taking 200iu of HCG today. Will retest in 6 weeks again.

Oddly enough, I think the T is beginning to really help with the ED now. I have not taken Tadalafil for almost 2 weeks and have managed successful intercourse for three straight days. It's not perfect in that department but functional. Ek.... Can't believe I am talking about this. But, for those wondering, please have patience when it comes to this area, it may take 6 to 8 months. I am now a bit worried about decreasing the HCG but I feel like it's got to be done for now to see if it helps with the higher E2 numbers.

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Hope lowering your hcg dose makes a difference. At least you will gain the experience from how your body responds.

I think you are on the right track reducing or eliminating the hcg ...

Hey Guys,
Just a quick update from me. Kinda getting frustrated and maybe you guys can simply offer some words of encouragement (since I have no new blood work to offer)

Cut back to 200iu of HCG and it's been about, I think 3 weeks now. Hot flashes, panic attacks and such are getting crazy I am also sweating an unbelievable amount. I can be just sitting or standing talking to someone and the sweat is just dripping out of my arm bits like a faucet. Surprisingly my ED is still much improved over 8 months ago.

I am going to get a whole slew of blood work done next Thursday which will be right before my next T shot and HCG shot.

Kinda down about this whole thing at the moment because I felt like I made really progress and was feeling really good.

So either my E2 is off the charts still, my T has crashed or something else. I guess what I will do if the E2 is still way to high is start a very small dose of AI - obviously something I didn't want to do but if I am still in the 60s I have to look at it. The worst part about all of this is in 4 weeks is my 20th wedding anniversary and we were planning a trip and I REALLY want to feel good for a change.

The problem with T + HCG + AI is then you are going down a path of polypharmacy and it becomes difficult to know what is working for you and what is working against you. IMHO if E is the problem best to eliminate the HCG versus adding an AI. Simplify rather than complicate. Then modify T injection frequency to reduce spikes in T or E.

JPB said:

The problem with T + HCG + AI is then you are going down a path of polypharmacy and it becomes difficult to know what is working for you and what is working against you. IMHO if E is the problem best to eliminate the HCG versus adding an AI. Simplify rather than complicate. Then modify T injection frequency to reduce spikes in T or E.

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I certainly agree with you. But I am concerned about losing the positive benefits of the HCG. I am already on EOD and the E2 is quite high with such a lowish dose that I am taking EOD. Maybe ED would make a difference dunno I suspect I just convert T into E2 very easily.

I hate taking stuff. I have been drug free my whole life except when it was needed with the cancer. I really can't stand doing the T and HCG. I hate being depending on something to actually have a decent life. But at this point it is what it is.

4 weeks after changing protocol from 400iu E3.5 days of HCG to 200iu E3.5 days my E2 has dropped a bit. My T level has remained pretty consistent. More concerning at this point is my hematicrit. Looks like I am close to donating.





Any suggestions/comments?

Well, in any case, I feel like my current protocol is a good one. I feel good with T in the mid 700s. Maybe I would feel better with E2 lower but right now everything is working as it should. I do have headaches off and on but maybe this is because of the hematicrit?

Just another quick update.


Thank you. no, THANK YOU! for those that suggested reducing the HCG. Obviously last test it was down 18 points from 4 weeks prior. I have not tested since then but I can tell there is a difference. My acne has really diminished and my Libido is extremely high now. Amazing the difference from just 6 weeks ago. The E2 at 68 did not reduce my Libido (nor increase ED issues) as much as it might have for some but it did a bit. But at this point in time I feel like I am in the zone I need to be. I am so glad I did not mess with the AI at this point in time.

Once I get the hematicrit resolved (if I need to - hydration before the next test and see were I am - If its still above 52 I will do the T P) I think I will be very happy with where I am.