Grrrr Labs/Journal

Age: 32
Height: 5’9”
Weight: 180lbs
Diagnosis: hashimotos, hypogonadism
Previous treatment: clomid or HCG mono for 10 years finally got on TRT about 10 weeks ago.I have experimented with a drug called LDN which is for hashimotos, i never noticed any difference so i stopped. If I can’t optimize my TRT within 6-8months I will try a compounded Testosterone cream and if that don’t work I will most likely going back to using Clomid mono considering I felt okay that treatment. I switched to TRT in hopes it would give me more energy and sexual interest.
I have extensive blood work dating back 10 years.


Since starting TRT Issues:
Cons:
*weak / fragile
*Decrease in energy / zombie feelings; could easily sit on couch all day, i have zero motivation
*testicle shrinkage despite hcg
*decline in orgasm
Pros
*Improved libido, erectile strength and more morning erections (despite having high e2)


Information:
HCG syringe 31 Gauge 5/16”
Test Cyp. syringe 25 Gauge 5/8”


*HCG and Test both injected around navel area
TRT Dosage/Schedule
Monday Morning: SubQ 50mg Test Cyp, 300iu HCG
Thursday Morning: SubQ 50mg Test Cyp, 300iu HCG

Daily:
morning: 10mcg T3
50mg pregnenolone


Evening: 125mcg T4
5mcg T3
50mg pregnenolone
Daily Supplements ; Vitamin K2, E, Magnesium, Taurine
Occasional Supplements: Zinc, Vit D, A, Grapeseed extract, L-Arginine, Yohimbine
Occasional Drugs: Cialis 20-30mg




Blood test: (SubQ TRT 50mg Test Cyp 2x a week and SubQ 300iu HCG 2x week)


3 weeks post TRT: 48hrs after injection:
Total T: 557 (250-827 ng/dL)
E2 Ultra: 27 < OR = 29 pg/mL


6 weeks post TRT: 48hrs after injection:
Total T: 640 (250-827 ng/dL)
E2 Ultra: 48 < OR = 29 pg/mL HIGH

I think you're leaving out some tests there, very rarely is RBC and HCT ran without a full cbc for example. It's best to have full results posted.

It seems like a defy protocol to me. Are you using Defy?

I don't know why you tested 48 hours post injection, it really only gives confusing information, and very little actionable info.

E2 is sky high. It would explain all of your problems, it needs to be under control, and in your case, with a trough of 500 something, there's no way to lower dose to control E2, I really think an AI is necessary.

I'm just wondering, what amount of low dose naltrexone were you using.

I updated the entire lab sheet.
No defy

1.5-4mg LDN

I'm just a little concerned Im converting so much into e2, DHT and increase in prolactin...I will give TRT a several month trial before I discontinue and go back to clomid

I will be starting .1mg of Armidex 2x a week; hopefully this brings down Prolactin and increases Testosterone?

Grrrr said:

I updated the entire lab sheet.
No defy

1.5-4mg LDN

I'm just a little concerned Im converting so much into e2, DHT and increase in prolactin...I will give TRT a several month trial before I discontinue and go back to clomid

I will be starting .1mg of Armidex 2x a week; hopefully this brings down Prolactin and increases Testosterone?

Click to expand...

The labs you posted pictures of, are these the recent ones at trough? Where is E2? Where is prolactin?

Did you leave a page off?

IIRC your prolactin was 13, which is not high by any standards IMO. AI will do nothing for prolactin.

You should consider donating blood soon.

All test are posted including prolactin. E2 is not because it's on a separate page i can post it then. Trough reading. Im changing thyroid, adding in arimidex and may try IM injection. Im a little nervous about my dht since im prone to hair loss

Grrrr said:

All test are posted including prolactin. E2 is not because it's on a separate page i can post it then. Trough reading. Im changing thyroid, adding in arimidex and may try IM injection. Im a little nervous about my dht since im prone to hair loss

Click to expand...

Well, if you don't post E2, then it's really hard for anyone to comment on it. Same with prolactin. Unless I'm just not seeing it, I've missed things before, but it's hard to say much more.

It's definitely there... Not sure what else you want me todo..Prolactin was 13
Everything is now updated...

Grrrr said:

It's definitely there... Not sure what else you want me todo..Prolactin was 13
Everything is now updated...

Click to expand...

You must have edited it in, or I completely missed it, that's entirely possible too!

Sounds good, your trough is somewhat low though, maybe you'll feel better with just lowering E2 and not need a test dose increase. You seem to be a heavy aromatizer, if at 567 you are having E2 problems.

Thanks.. Yeah I'm a bit worried about that...
Because I have been as high as 800-900 on clomid and my E2 was actually a bit low....

I was very alarmed by the amount I converted into E2 and DHT (which DHT always run a bit lower than mid range like 40-50 area)

Im hoping adding some some adrimdex will boost T to around the 700-800 levels.

I will test in a few weeks and keep posting here
Like I said before I am willing to give TRT a shot... if it fails ill just go back to clomid.

Grrrr said:

Thanks.. Yeah I'm a bit worried about that...
Because I have been as high as 800-900 on clomid and my E2 was actually a bit low....

I was very alarmed by the amount I converted into E2 and DHT (which DHT always run a bit lower than mid range like 40-50 area)

Im hoping adding some some adrimdex will boost T to around the 700-800 levels.

I will test in a few weeks and keep posting here
Like I said before I am willing to give TRT a shot... if it fails ill just go back to clomid.

Click to expand...

A dose increase would probably be better. The amount of testosterone consumed by aromatase is very small.

The blue group was given testosterone gel without AI. The red group was given testosterone gel and 1mg adex a day, so almost zero E2 was produced, and as you see, the testosterone levels are only slightly higher.

DHT is probably a better thing being high, as it's a lot more potent than testosterone is.

thanks i wanted to show to this you
its from 6 weeks of using a compounded T cream... I stopped due to several reasons.



interestingly enough my Free T3 was the highest its ever been but i was on the same amount of thyroid hormone maybe even 10mcg t3,, but i could have been on LDN at the time i don't recal. I didnt keep my journal back that far

Grrrr said:

thanks i wanted to show to this you
its from 6 weeks of using a compounded T cream... I stopped due to several reasons.
View attachment 2775


interestingly enough my Free T3 was the highest its ever been but i was on the same amount of thyroid hormone maybe even 10mcg t3,, but i could have been on LDN at the time i don't recal. I didnt keep my journal back that far

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Holy crap, you didn't by chance get any of the cream on the skin where they insert the needle to draw blood? I've seen labs where guys do that, but usually free test is super high, this seems legitimate.

Ironically, E2 is at a really good level, odd.

I don't know... Its quite possible it was not an accurate test.
I stopped because of cost because insurance did not cover it (they cover the T cyp), the transfer to my newborn and pregnant wife,

But i may try it again if T cyp fails me, i was really hoping to avoid arimidex but i guess not

I think I read some guys do better with IM injections because they aromitze to much sub q? not sure how true that is

Grrrr said:

I don't know... Its quite possible it was not an accurate test.
I stopped because of cost because insurance did not cover it (they cover the T cyp), the transfer to my newborn and pregnant wife,

But i may try it again if T cyp fails me, i was really hoping to avoid arimidex but i guess not

I think I read some guys do better with IM injections because they aromitze to much sub q? not sure how true that is

Click to expand...

It will depend on you personally. Some do well with subq, some don't, the only way to find out is to try.

Grrrr said:

I think I read some guys do better with IM injections because they aromitze to much sub q? not sure how true that is

Click to expand...

You certainly read that. But you could have just as easily read that "...some guys do better with SubQ injections because they aromatize too much IM." A search of the Forum turns up threads in which the topic goes back and forth, round and round. Guys in perfectly good faith argue that SubQ lowered their e2, or kept it in check, and others, in perfectly good faith, claim IM did the same. Both have labs that substantiate their claims. As one who has tried both, I can say injection technique didn't impact my levels at all (and my labs back me up). Try it for six weeks and see - and let us know.

Thanks but I doubt i'll try IM... I just don't have the guts todo it and it seems more risky... And I'm use to just injecting into my stomach....

I started arimdex

Grrrr said:

Thanks but I doubt i'll try IM... I just don't have the guts todo it and it seems more risky... And I'm use to just injecting into my stomach....

I started arimdex

Click to expand...

It's not much different honestly. With the proper syringe like a 27g 1/2inch insulin syringe, it's not much different than getting a tetanus shot or vaccination.

Do you think my DHT is high enough to cause hair loss?
I don't have any signs of hair loss but it does run in the fam.

IM injections are where most of the data from trials have been recorded. I personally will not do sub q since there is no data. I begin 2x weekly this Monday and will post data in 6 weeks or so. I can tell from experience that hashimoto's may be your main issue. I have it and am 36. Everyday is different and is a struggle at times. If you workout too hard or don't sleep enough or eat bad or a million other things, then u will feel bad. Your TSH looks good, but personally you may be taking way too many vitamins and meds?