Ex Propecia user help needed

dp1286 said:

Thanks John !

What number would you say I should aim to get my T / E upto??

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Like coastwatcher said, one where you feel good.

But Im so far off the range for E2 that im going to need a big load of T to get that number up no?

dp1286 said:

But Im so far off the range for E2 that im going to need a big load of T to get that number up no?

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How do you know? I had rock-bottom T and E levels that I raised on 16mg a day. I am NOT suggesting you need to inject on a daily basis, only that starting low and going slow is a wise way to initiate any protocol.

Thanks Coasterwatcher! your story gives me a little hope

Im terrified of needles lol Im hoping a once a week protocol could help

dp1286 said:

But Im so far off the range for E2 that im going to need a big load of T to get that number up no?

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Not true at all. Your T/E2 ratio is 35 right now.

Mine was 50 before starting TRT, and now on TRT, it's about 30.

Vince is another member who is a low aromatizer. I just need my trough around 900 for me to have sufficient E2.

You have to remember, that a higher testosterone level will cause more percent of test to be aromatized into E2, which is why my T/E2 ratio decreased on TRT. Basically think of it as higher testosterone = more "pressure" pushing testosterone into the aromatase enzyme. That's an oversimplification, but it'll make sense to you, I think.

You'll be fine. You just need to be higher than low normal.

Thanks Guys you have given me some hope as propecia has really taken me close to the edge

I will push my endo to move me onto shots and get my level to a decent number though I have to admit he is clueless the only way I got my E done was by writing it illegally on my blood request form myself he still says me E level is fine and men arent supposed to have much of it

Should I supplement anything like DHEA?

dp1286 said:

Thanks Guys you have given me some hope as propecia has really taken me close to the edge

I will push my endo to move me onto shots and get my level to a decent number though I have to admit he is clueless the only way I got my E done was by writing it illegally on my blood request form myself he still says me E level is fine and men arent supposed to have much of it

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Where do you live?

It's going to be tough to get a decent protocol with an endo who doesn't even believe in E2's role in men. I had some idiot purported provider on another forum today tell me that low E2 in men isn't something that would indicate TRT, and that my E2 was "normal" when it was 8 pg/ml on a 7-43 range standard test. Keep in mind, I presented as primary, as LH was maxed out basically.

Yeah, guys in their 20's should be experiencing menopausal symptoms as that's completely normal.

Unfortunately, this is 90% of medical providers.

Serum FSH level 9.2 (1.50-12.40IU/L)
Serum LH level 4.9 (1.70-8.60IU/L)

These numbers would indicate primary for myself also right John?

I live in Devon in the UK John

dp1286 said:

Serum FSH level 9.2 (1.50-12.40IU/L)
Serum LH level 4.9 (1.70-8.60IU/L)

These numbers would indicate primary for myself also right John?

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Depends on what the corresponding testosterone and maybe E2 level were. If 900ng/dl, no, if 400, most likely. 200 absolutely.

I know it's tough to find a decent provider in the UK but that's your only hope really. Another problem is not having test C or E. Only sustanon which is rather useless for TRT.

Thanks John - I dont know what that means re C or E or Sustanon?

Sorry I have very limited knowledge but I am so greatful for your advice

Does anyone have a theory as to why I wake up so so tired and my eyes so fatigued?

dp1286 said:

Thanks John - I dont know what that means re C or E or Sustanon?

Sorry I have very limited knowledge but I am so greatful for your advice

Does anyone have a theory as to why I wake up so so tired and my eyes so fatigued?

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Testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate are injectable forms of testosterone. Sustanon is a brand name. Google will give more info quicker than I can.

You have low E2. You're going to feel terrible until that is corrected.

dp1286 said:

Should I supplement anything like DHEA?

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You're engaging in a scattershot approach to your situation. A good protocol is a rational approach developed by you and your doctor to address your overall hormonal issues. All your blood work, and all your symptoms, must be considered in structuring it. What makes you think DHEA is necessary in your case?

Thanks for your feedback coastwatcher - my knowledge is limited and my biggest struggle has been getting an endo to even look at my situatuon

TBH no I dont know why I suggested DHEA I am shooting in the dark

Can you make any solid suggestions for me give my situ?

Thanks in advance

dp1286 said:

Thanks for your feedback coastwatcher - my knowledge is limited and my biggest struggle has been getting an endo to even look at my situatuon

TBH no I dont know why I suggested DHEA I am shooting in the dark

Can you make any solid suggestions for me give my situ?

Thanks in advance

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There are three excellent books that men on a TRT protocol can consult with profit. Nelson Vergel's is the oldest, and, as such, the section on estradiol and HCG is slightly outdated, but it lays out the most complete overview of this complex situation. In your case, I would suggest you read Dr. John Crisler's book, https://www.amazon.com/Testosterone...ccess-ebook/dp/B00UPN8JFU/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8. Recently published, it is a shorter overview of TRT. Jay Friedman has a new book out as well. It is imperative that yiu begin to understand what you are dealing with.

Thanks guys for your advice I have ordered this book and shall give it a thorough read!!

I have an appointment with my endo in 11 days what should I be pushing him to do next? I like to pre plan so I can counteract his bullshit such as E isnt important

Thanks in advance guys

dp1286 said:

Thanks guys for your advice I have ordered this book and shall give it a thorough read!!

I have an appointment with my endo in 11 days what should I be pushing him to do next? I like to pre plan so I can counteract his bullshit such as E isnt important

Thanks in advance guys

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It is going to be an ongoing, uphill battle if you have to wrestle with your doctor, educating him every step of the way in these matters.

You our are in Devon; are you willing to travel to London, and pay for care outside the NHS? I ask because there are clinics holding themselves out as treating hypogonadal men. Are they cutting edge? I can't say. But you could contact them and discuss their services. If you need names please advise.

I am willing to travel yes but would first like to see where my doctor wishes to go from here

Ill see what he says is next step and make the call from there

Guys I really really need your help - which you have been excellent at providing so far!

On Wednesday I am see my endo to go through my results
16-Dec-2016 ! OESTRADIOL
! Serum oestradiol level 54 pmol/L (99.00 - 192.00pmol/L)
16-Dec-2016 Serum free T4 level
Serum free T4 level 16.4 pmol/L (11.00 - 24.00pmol/L)


I need to be prepared for him so that I can pin him down with solid information and facts

What should I tell him????

John Doe and Coast Watcher your help would be greatly appreciated on this

Thanks
Dan