Why DHEA/Pregnenolone when on TRT?

TMI · Oct 18, 2016

Trying to wrap my head around the use of DHEA and pregnenolone whilst on TRT. I have looked at the diagrams showing how cholesterol becomes the various hormones. It would seem that people with high cholesterol would also have high T (not necessarily the case).

So, why supplement with DHEA and pregnenolone when you want more T?

TMI · Oct 18, 2016

Read some warning from the US about these hormone precursors affecting "good" cholesterol (HDL). Can't find any science to back that up so far. The warning is here: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=hsc&group=110001-111000&file=110423-110423.8

Vince Carter · Oct 18, 2016

Most guys suffer from the so called "adrenal fatigue" and will consequently be low on DHEA and then the negative feedback loop that is associated with HPTA shutdown will affect the hormonal cascade. Its generally advised to backfill those hormonal pathways if testing indicates the person is indeed low in one or both. It is much more common to supplement DHEA alone though. Usually 25mg is plenty to supplement in either.

TMI · Oct 18, 2016

Vince Carter said:
Most guys suffer from the so called "adrenal fatigue" and will consequently be low on DHEA

You may be mistaken here*; DHEA is in the sex hormone pathway, not the cortisol pathway.

*Edit to add: unless you subscribe to the "pregnenolone steal syndrome". Then what you say makes sense to me. Trying to understand all this and it is complicated.

TMI · Oct 18, 2016

Vince Carter said:
Most guys suffer from the so called "adrenal fatigue" and will consequently be low on DHEA and then the negative feedback loop that is associated with HPTA shutdown will affect the hormonal cascade. Its generally advised to backfill those hormonal pathways if testing indicates the person is indeed low in one or both. It is much more common to supplement DHEA alone though. Usually 25mg is plenty to supplement in either.

What I'm asking, now that I think about it more is:

if there is enough substrate (cholesterol) then why isn't there enough production of pregnenolone, DHEA, testosterone, DHT, etc?

Is it ultimately an enzymatic issue where conversions to these hormones are not taking place at adequate rates?

TMI · Oct 18, 2016

Also, just as we take HCG when taking TRT to prevent the shutdown of our testes, shouldn't we also take CRH/ACTH (corticotropin releasing hormone/adrenocorticotropic hormone) when taking pregnenolone to prevent the shutdown of our adrenals?

Gene Devine · Oct 19, 2016

Read: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6657-DHEA-Supplementation

Read: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6658-Pregnenolone--By-Gene-Devine

Read how HCG, in absence of LH via the negative feedback look while on TRT, is critical in the conversion of Cholesterol to Pregnenolone then to DHEA: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?8260-Human-Chorionic-Gonadotropin--By-Gene-Devine

Vince Carter · Oct 19, 2016

TMI said:
What I'm asking, now that I think about it more is:

if there is enough substrate (cholesterol) then why isn't there enough production of pregnenolone, DHEA, testosterone, DHT, etc?

Is it ultimately an enzymatic issue where conversions to these hormones are not taking place at adequate rates?

Gene has it right, it's not the substrate as you say, or an enzyme, its the absence of LH acting on Cholesterol, Pregnenolone, Progesterone that prompts all of that. So you start on Test, LH goes to zero and thus that hormonal cascade is likewise shut down or severely obstructed.

Vince Carter · Oct 19, 2016

TMI said:
You may be mistaken here*; DHEA is in the sex hormone pathway, not the cortisol pathway.

*Edit to add: unless you subscribe to the "pregnenolone steal syndrome". Then what you say makes sense to me. Trying to understand all this and it is complicated.

View attachment 2566

Its not only cortisol in the Adrenals, it's DHEA, too.

DHEA is one of the androgen hormones secreted by the adrenal glands and is the precursor to several other sex hormones. DHEA levels often become depressed during adrenal fatigue. A saliva test can determine whether your DHEA levels are below normal. I usually recommend measuring DHEA-S levels with the saliva test as well because the adrenals are the primary source of DHEA-S (but not necessarily DHEA). Adrenal fatigue syndrome often involves decreased DHEA-S. The DHEA-S level is a direct indicator of the functioning of the area within the adrenal glands that produces sex hormones (the zona reticularis).

Gene Devine · Oct 20, 2016

Vince Carter said:
Gene has it right, it's not the substrate as you say, or an enzyme, its the absence of LH acting on Cholesterol, Pregnenolone, Progesterone that prompts all of that. So you start on Test, LH goes to zero and thus that hormonal cascade is likewise shut down or severely obstructed.

Not only that Vince but is effects all three metabolic pathways!

LH/HCG is what stimulates the P450 SCC enzyme that is responsible for the conversion of Chol to Preg. Without that stimulation all upstream metabolites are effected in all three pathways...it's why we call it "back-filling" the pathways.

It's also why it's good to also supplement Pregnenolone and DHEA while on TRT for just that reason.

Why DHEA/Pregnenolone when on TRT?

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