1. #1

    Nandrolone plus T : Latest labs new protocol unexpected results

    protocol injecting MWF
    60mg Testosterone 180mg weekly total(thought I was doing 150mg weekly pulled 40mg with 3cc and back loaded)
    200iu HCG 600iu weekly total
    40mg Nandrolone 120mg weekly total
    4,000mg Fish oil
    50mg Zinc
    3,000mg Vitamin D

    last injection was Friday at 11:30pm blood draw was Monday morning
    last whole blood donation was 07/08/2016
    What do you guys Think?

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    Last edited by Nelson Vergel; 09-03-2016 at 09:05 AM.

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  3. #2
    I have no high estrogen symptoms.
    seems the testosterone test didn't register the nandrolone as testosterone?
    sex drive could be better but I'm under an extreme amount of stress.
    erections are ok not great but not bad morning wood is not everyday.
    my SHBG dropped from 20 to 16
    I'm surprised how low my DHT was I lowered my Zinc from 50 to 25mg hope it helps
    my surprise was my hematocrit level, its almost time for my next donation and its lower than it was on testosterone alone.
    I've read that some peoples hematocrit stabilizes after a while on TRT do you think that's what's happening?
    .
    Any thoughts and recommendations would be welcomed
    Thanks guys

  4. #3
    I wish Proviron was legal and available in the US but since its not I know some use compounded cream applied to the scrotum to raise DHT. May I ask how much you pay(you can PM me) what dose how long it lasts you and most importantly if you seen any positive changes Thanks

  5. #4
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    I do think your numbers look good, I also heard that hematocrit stabilizes after a while on TRT. Because my libido is so good I've never thought of having my DHT tested.

  6. #5
    Super Moderator Nelson Vergel's Avatar
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    Paul-E

    Calculate your eGFR: https://www.davita.com/gfr-calculator/ (next time tell doc to ask lab to include it)

    Your hematocrit did stabilize

    How about your HDL? Nandrolone plus T will drive your HDL down more.

    T cream on scrotum may be an option for your low DHT. Did you have DHT measured before to compare?

    Glad to see that you had your prolactin checked. So many guys speculate that nandrolone increases prolactin. Yours is low.

    I can see that may not be working out. Right?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelson Vergel View Post
    Paul-E

    Calculate your eGFR: https://www.davita.com/gfr-calculator/ (next time tell doc to ask lab to include it)

    Your hematocrit did stabilize

    How about your HDL? Nandrolone plus T will drive your HDL down more.

    T cream on scrotum may be an option for your low DHT. Did you have DHT measured before to compare?

    Glad to see that you had your prolactin checked. So many guys speculate that nandrolone increases prolactin. Yours is low.

    I can see that may not be working out. Right?
    my last EGFR test was 67 the calculator you provided says 71 next time I will make sure to get it tested, my moms kidneys have failed before but they came back and after I seen this "Paul-E has increased risk of developing Chronic Kidney Disease, due to CT genotype for rs6495446 compared to people with other genotypes. Other clinical, genetic or environmental factors may influence this outcome." I know its something to keep an eye on but EGFR hasn't changed a lot from before TRT.
    .
    I will also do lipids next time but I think I have genetically bad cholesterol last HDL was 22 >39 it has always been low despite lifestyle changes(my mom and sister as well).
    .
    DHT in the past on Testosterone 220mg 2x a week and no HCG was 57 30-85
    .
    My last Progesterone test before Nandrolone was .7 so its actually lower now at .1
    .
    you are correct I have not been working out way too much going on at home, I plan on getting back into it starting next week. Just out of curiosity how can you tell?

  8. #7
    Super Moderator Nelson Vergel's Avatar
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    Ok. Yes, almost everyone on T and/or nandrolone who is working out and eating high protein has a slight elevation of AST and ALT. That's how I knew you were slacking

  9. #8
    Smart Nelson , what is a common dose for the Testosterone cream on the scrotum to increase DHT?
    I would like my testosterone to be optimal but would like to avoid an AI, I'm thinking I really need to focus on fat loss do you guys agree?

  10. #9
    Junior Member maxadvance's Avatar
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    Proviron will drive your SHBG and your HDL down, probably should hold off taking that. Deca won't raise your T. Surprised your free T is that low with a low shbg reading.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL-E View Post
    Smart Nelson , what is a common dose for the Testosterone cream on the scrotum to increase DHT?
    I would like my testosterone to be optimal but would like to avoid an AI, I'm thinking I really need to focus on fat loss do you guys agree?
    I use 25mg daily on the ole bean bag, works really well, takes my DHT at last read to 130 (16-79), applied two hours before testing.

    Curious free T with your SHBG in the teens.

    The high Creatinine, which my nurse gives me shit about, is indicative of your workouts (if I remember correctly past posts from you).

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by maxadvance View Post
    Proviron will drive your SHBG and your HDL down, probably should hold off taking that. Deca won't raise your T. Surprised your free T is that low with a low shbg reading.
    I'm surprised as well I wasn't very impressed with my total or free testosterone levels especially for my dose, injection frequency and the Nandrolone as well. I must be a hyper metabolizer/excreter. I would like my levels to be more optimal but don't want to raise my dose and worry about an AI, I'm thinking if I lose fat instead my estrogen will lower and testosterone will increase due to less conversion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Carter View Post
    I use 25mg daily on the ole bean bag, works really well, takes my DHT at last read to 130 (16-79), applied two hours before testing.

    Curious free T with your SHBG in the teens.

    The high Creatinine, which my nurse gives me shit about, is indicative of your workouts (if I remember correctly past posts from you).
    Thanks Vince Carter are you primary hypogonadism?
    Do you guys think primary hypogonadism would effect how the cream is converted?

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL-E View Post
    I'm surprised as well I wasn't very impressed with my total or free testosterone levels especially for my dose, injection frequency and the Nandrolone as well. I must be a hyper metabolizer/excreter. I would like my levels to be more optimal but don't want to raise my dose and worry about an AI, I'm thinking if I lose fat instead my estrogen will lower and testosterone will increase due to less conversion.



    Thanks Vince Carter are you primary hypogonadism?
    Do you guys think primary hypogonadism would effect how the cream is converted?
    I dont think I ever had a real primary or secondary diagnosis.

  14. #13
    Just a question is it fair to say that since I seem to metabolize my testosterone so fast that I'm not getting the full benefit of 180mg weekly dose and if so does that mean I'm also not getting the full benefit of the 120mg of nandrolone as well?
    I really don't want to inject more than 3x a week or raise my testosterone dose but if I were to try a EOD injection schedule giving my last test results and lower SHBG what do you guys think a good dose for Testosterone, HCG and Nandrolone would be?
    sorry I haven't been online much been working on my marriage and other issues
    Thanks guys!

  15. #14
    I've read that Nandrolone will cause low DHT. I don't recall the exact process but something to do with DHN? binding to the DHT receptor...

  16. #15
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    Is it for sure, that Deca will not raise T? I've added some due to joint issues and I don't want any surprises (ie surprise doc) when I get the results from the lab.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Infoseeker View Post
    Is it for sure, that Deca will not raise T? I've added some due to joint issues and I don't want any surprises (ie surprise doc) when I get the results from the lab.
    I believe that depends on the lab that does the tests some do and some don't.

  18. #17
    How are you guys getting Nandrolone? is it available now?

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by magnus68 View Post
    How are you guys getting Nandrolone? is it available now?
    It's available if you have a medical need and a DR. willing to prescribe it.

    Also donated whole blood hemoglobin was 15.8 x3 puts hematocrit around 47.4 so this confirms my hematocrit seems to have stabilized

  20. #19
    Super Moderator Nelson Vergel's Avatar
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    Here are reasons doctors prescribe nandrolone:

    Anabolic/Androgenic Hormone Prescribing Indications


  21. #20
    I've been thinking about talking to my DR about changing my protocol to
    50mg Testosterone Cyp EOD
    150ius HCG EOD
    then either keep the nandrolone 3 day a week or figure out what an EOD dose would be.
    .
    The reason for the change is I've been feeling very fatigued lately but I've been under a lot of pressure/stress and still dealing with some depression and anxiety issues also very busy and I've been sick for about 5-6 weeks straight started with a cough then to the flue now to like a cold, immune system seems to have tanked. I was planning on rechecking thyroid and cortisol any suggestions for any additional tests or opinions would be appreciated
    .
    Thanks guys sorry I've been scarce been really busy

  22. #21
    Super Moderator Nelson Vergel's Avatar
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    Paul-E

    How is your blood pressure and sleep quality? Any water retention?

    That small dose of HCG will not backfill your progesterone and pregnenolone, improve fertility or prevent testicular atrophy. HCG at higher doses like 500 IU twice per week can also increase your DHT.

    I forgot to previously say that nandrolone IS NOT picked up as testosterone by the testosterone test. It is not testosterone even if the molecule is closely related.
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  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL-E View Post
    I've been thinking about talking to my DR about changing my protocol...
    .
    ... I've been feeling very fatigued lately but I've been under a lot of pressure/stress and still dealing with some depression and anxiety issues also very busy and I've been sick for about 5-6 weeks straight started with a cough then to the flue now to like a cold, immune system seems to have tanked...
    .
    Hi Paul,What supplement stacks have you tried? Aminos? Light therapy?

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelson Vergel View Post
    Paul-E

    How is your blood pressure and sleep quality? Any water retention?

    That small dose of HCG will not backfill your progesterone and pregnenolone, improve fertility or prevent testicular atrophy. HCG at higher doses like 500 IU twice per week can also increase your DHT.

    I forgot to previously say that nandrolone IS NOT picked up as testosterone by the testosterone test. It is not testosterone even if the molecule is closely related.
    My blood pressure is ok, my sleep could be a bit better. My current dose of hcg at 200ius 3x a week (total 600iu's/week) has been enough to keep my testical's full that's why I was thinking 150iu EOD would be sufficient I was just trying to avoid estrogen conversion maybe try 175iu's EOD and go from there?


    Quote Originally Posted by Re-Ride View Post
    Hi Paul,What supplement stacks have you tried? Aminos? Light therapy?
    Just a multi vitamin 4000mg fish oil daily and 3000mg vitamin D daily and coq10 no light therapy.
    I haven't donated blood in about 3 months since I've been sick though

  25. #24
    Paul, YMMV. Mood/cognitive and immune stacks help many. Expensive branded supplements are unnecessary. Natural full spectrum light is best. If you live in the north then look in to light sources. Cut down or eliminate blue light sources in the evening.

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Re-Ride View Post
    Paul, YMMV. Mood/cognitive and immune stacks help many. Expensive branded supplements are unnecessary. Natural full spectrum light is best. If you live in the north then look in to light sources. Cut down or eliminate blue light sources in the evening.
    Where can I find info. On the stacks you mention?

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