What Level E2 do you have to worry about gyno? Can too much Clomid give Low E2 symptoms like Adex?

Buy Lab Tests Online

PeteMitchell

New Member
E2
Background
I'm on TRT at 200mg cyptionate per week plus HCG 500iu 2X per week.
Last E2 sensitive test came back at 63.5. Range 8-35. (i think it might have spiked bc the week prior to test I had just cut Adex back from .5 twice a week to .25 twice a week....Got it tested again yesterday to see if E2 is decreasing; still awaiting results)


QUESTION 1: At what level of E2 should I be worried about gyno at my dosage of cypionate?



CLOMID
Doc also prescribed 25mg Clomid ED, but I quit taking after 2 weeks because I felt like shit (he also prescribed 1mg Adex 3X week for TRT, I bottomed out E2 in 2 weeks and cut clomid completely and Adex by a lot). However I'm wondering if bottomed out E2 was due to Clomid + Adex or from Adex only. The E2 test at the time showed 2 on range 8-35.

So Clomid Questions...

QUESTION 2: I know Clomid just blocks estrogen receptors w/o actually lowering E2 levels, but can too much Clomid make you feel like your E2 levels have bottomed out??

QUESTION 3: Does Clomid only block estrogen receptors in breast tissue, or does it block them elsewhere also?

QUESTION 4: Are the receptors in breast tissue the ones that make you feel like shit if they aren't receiving enough estrogen or are those different receptors?
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor

PAUL-E

Member
everyone is different some can have very high e2 and no gyno and others flare up with a slight E2 increase.

more importantly clomid will not provide stimulation of HPTA function if your already on TRT

Clomid inhibit Estrogen at the hypothalamus & pituitary gland and other areas but it doesn't block Estrogen receptors at Breast tissue
your doctor doesn't seem like he/she knows what he/she is doing.
high E2 and low E2 side effects a very similar.

3mg a week of anastrozole is too much IMHO
 
Last edited:

PeteMitchell

New Member
everyone is different some can have very high e2 and no gyno and others flare up with a slight E2 increase.

more importantly clomid will not provide stimulation of HPTA function if your already on TRT
your doctor doesn't seem like he/she knows what he/she is doing.
high E2 and low E2 side effects a very similar.

3mg a week of anastrozole is too much IMHO


I understand everyone is different. I am talking ballpark, approximate, normal range, an estimation. I don't care about clomids effect on HPTA. I want to know about its effect on E2 and how it affects the body.

E2 LEVELS
QUESTION 1: At what level of E2 should I be worried about gyno at my dosage of cypionate?

CLOMID Q's
QUESTION 2: I know Clomid just blocks estrogen receptors w/o actually lowering E2 levels, but can too much Clomid make you feel like your E2 levels have bottomed out??

QUESTION 3: Does Clomid only block estrogen receptors in breast tissue, or does it block them elsewhere also?

QUESTION 4: Are the receptors in breast tissue the ones that make you feel like shit if they aren't receiving enough estrogen or are those different receptors?
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
How long have you been on TRT and have you always been following a protocol that calls for 200mg a week of testosterone? What is your most recent testosterone value? I ask because gynecomastia does not, typically, appear suddenly. Adjustment of estradiol levels can frequently be achieved by manipulation of dosing levles/injection frequency.
 

PeteMitchell

New Member
Been on TRT 8 weeks.

Beginning Protocol - 2 Weeks
Test 200mg 1X week, HCG 500iu 2x week
Started with anastrozole 1mg 3X week + clomid 25mg ED.
E2 bottomed out

Weeks 2-4
Test 100mg 2X week, Hcg 500iu 2x Week
Adex .5 2X week, 0 clomid
E2 week 3 was 33.8
E2 week 4 was 17
Because it dropped so fast I dropped adex again.

Week 5-7
Test 100mg 2X week, HCG 500IU 2X week
Adex .25 2X week, 0 clomid
Week 6 E2 = 66 - felt like shit.
Week 7 E2 = yesterday, no values yet. - but feel much better so it'll be interesting.

I don't see how this is relevant to the questions I asked, because, at the very least questions 2-4 seem very general/science based and not patient specific. Even question 1, I am just looking for a range/ballpark. Not trying to be a smart ass, just wondering if I am missing something?
 

trt4me

New Member
You stopped adex and then restarted and it was 66 and now feeling better.
Most likely e2 went up and now coming back down now. I give changes in adex 2 weeks to manifest or get blood work.

I have not heard of a certain e2 threshold for gyno so I wouldn't over think that bit I would say it would be at or over your high limit but that's a guess.

Getting gyno IS specific to each person. I have seen bodybuilders take much more test that you with no e2 meds and not get any gyno, and others can take 200 mg a week and get gyno.

Q2. Clomid can make many feel like garbage or like e2 is too high or low since those symptoms are very close.
Sometimes clomid can truly raise e2.
 

PeteMitchell

New Member
You stopped adex and then restarted and it was 66 and now feeling better.
Most likely e2 went up and now coming back down now. I give changes in adex 2 weeks to manifest or get blood work.

I have not heard of a certain e2 threshold for gyno so I wouldn't over think that bit I would say it would be at or over your high limit but that's a guess.

Getting gyno IS specific to each person. I have seen bodybuilders take much more test that you with no e2 meds and not get any gyno, and others can take 200 mg a week and get gyno.

Q2. Clomid can make many feel like garbage or like e2 is too high or low since those symptoms are very close.
Sometimes clomid can truly raise e2.

So I never actually stopped taking adex. I backed dosage off from 1mg to .5mg to .25mg. When I backed off from 1mg 3X/week to .5mg 2X/week my E2 went from 2 to 33 a week later. Then a week after that it was 17. I backed it off from .5mg 2X/week to .25mg 2X/week and it spiked to 66 a week later (last Wed). I felt terrible then (last Wed) no wood, no libido, no energy. But by Friday I felt great, and still feel great now. So I tested again this morning and won't get results back until Thurs. or Fri.
 

PAUL-E

Member
Not trying to be a smart ass, just wondering if I am missing something?

I wasn't trying to be a smart ass either sorry if it came off that way. Everyone's ballpark is different and I cant think of any point for clomid if your already on TRT. Clomid doesn't block Estrogen on Breast tissue. glad your feeling better .25 adex 2x a week is way more appropriate than 1mg 3x a week IMO. Also lower more frequent dosing usually results in lower estrogen levels many do this to avoid an AI all together.
 

hfbjr

Member
My estrogen went from a 23 to a 36 (sensitive) and I started having all sorts of issues. I was also using alot of arimidex.
 

bigfred32

Member
I read the thread and didnt see any mention of T levels or blood work posted. What is your TT? Since E2 follows T, the higher T levels can naturally lead to elevated E2 but still be in a healthy ratio. If you dont have adverse symptoms of elevated E2 such as bloating, nipple soreness, water retention, why be overly concerned?
Taking anywhere over 1mg of adex a week is a alot even if it sounds like alittle.
I follow the T to E ratio, take your total T number and divide by E2 number and if you fall in the ratio of 14-20 I personally wouldnt mess with it
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
The overly referenced and misused study that Life Extension and others used to scare men about estradiol had several flaws:

1- Men with heart disease with average testosterone os 320 ng/dL were included

2- The old estradiol test was used so E2 was overestimated.

We know that testosterone converts to estradiol, so more testosterone will convert to more estradiol. To expect that a man with 1000 ng/dL total T should have the estradiol of a old man with heart disease with low T is just crazy.

Until someone does a study on healthy men with testosterone over 500 ng/dL and using the right test I will not drink the kool aid that most men online have.

Circulating estradiol and mortality in men with systolic chronic heart failure.



Article: Elevated Estradiol During Testosterone Replacement : To Treat or Not To Treat?
 

PeteMitchell

New Member
The overly referenced and misused study that Life Extension and others used to scare men about estradiol had several flaws:

1- Men with heart disease with average testosterone os 320 ng/dL were included

2- The old estradiol test was used so E2 was overestimated.

We know that testosterone converts to estradiol, so more testosterone will convert to more estradiol. To expect that a man with 1000 ng/dL total T should have the estradiol of a old man with heart disease with low T is just crazy.

Until someone does a study on healthy men with testosterone over 500 ng/dL and using the right test I will not drink the kool aid that most men online have.

Circulating estradiol and mortality in men with systolic chronic heart failure.



Article: Elevated Estradiol During Testosterone Replacement : To Treat or Not To Treat?

I'm really more concerned about E2 as it relates to man boobs. I know this is myopic, but currently, as far as estrogen is concerned I only really care about 2 things.

1.) I don't want it so high I grow tits.
2.) But I don't want it so low I have zero energy and sexual problems.

Im currently on 100mg Test E3.5D, 500IU HCG E3.5D, and my sensitive E2 test came back 22, but my left nipple is still sore. I was thinking that taking 25mg ED of clomid would erase/reverse gyno problems, if that is in fact what I'm experiencing. However, I'm worried that at E2 =22, Clomid could make me feel as if E2 was so low it would effect my energy.

I'm pulling Total & Free Test, as well as prolactin and E2 tomorrow. I want to completely rule out Gyno as a cause of the soreness in my left nip.
 

bigfred32

Member
You're worrying about e2 numbers without total bloodwork yet. I think it would be hard to just treat e2 without looking at complete bloodwork and understanding that E follows T. As T goes up so does e2. As long as you keep it in a healthy ratio you should be ok, but you need complete bloodwork to figure it out
Sounds like your worried about soreness in your left nip but my understanding is gyno takes a while to develop if your genetically predisposed for it. Some guys can get it, some don't

Have you gone to a doctor yet and figure out why your nip is sore? You may be worrying unnecessarily.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
Clomid and exogenous testosterone simultaneously is not reccomended as the drug's effects work at cross purposes with one another. Tenderness in/around the nipple is not diagnostic in regard to gynecomastia; far more frequently it reflects serum androgen activity. But even if your elevated E2 was leading you toward gynocomastia, it doesn't happen rapidly. If your blood work comes back with reasonable estradiol levels I would make no further changes.
 
Buy Lab Tests Online
Defy Medical TRT clinic

Sponsors

enclomiphene
nelson vergel coaching for men
Discounted Labs
TRT in UK Balance my hormones
Testosterone books nelson vergel
Register on ExcelMale.com
Trimix HCG Offer Excelmale
Thumos USA men's mentoring and coaching
Testosterone TRT HRT Doctor Near Me

Online statistics

Members online
9
Guests online
5
Total visitors
14

Latest posts

bodybuilder test discounted labs
Top