Normal T, low free T, low E2, High SHBG. Saw Palmetto?

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lookingforhelp

New Member
Hi



I am a 26 year old male, 6 ft 4 (195) and currently at 90 kg. My whole life I have been fit and healthy, never overweight and always eaten healthy from a young age. I had my own construction business until about 2 years ago when i fell sick.

I have been having hormone problems sometime now for reasons why I am unsure. I suffered a head injury a few years ago which Drs think it stems from. Since the head injury I have been fatigued a lot of the time but things got really bad when I began supplementing a mens multi vitamin it seemed. After finishing the bottle of vitamins I noticed an ingredient I had no idea as to what it was. Saw palmetto. I googled it, first results come up ''great for mens sexual function'' '' goof for hair'' ''improves libido''. I live in the UK so you can literally buy this stuff anywhere in any health store. I got a box of it, took one pill, next morning woke with a shrunken **** that was cold to touch and many other strange symptoms.

Things seemed to improve and get better but never back to how they were. One pill of saw palmetto surely can't have done this to me? It was low dose? Anyway i went to the dr and the NHS system here is just plain painful. For a long time I was refused tests as I was young man with a beard so I must have testosterone. My dr didn't know what DHT was. I asked about prolactin for some time as well as E2 but these are hormones only women have apparently! You can see what I have been up against.

I was eventually tested for prolactin. It came in high. Ive had an MRI and i don't have a tumour.

I will attach my lab work over the past years. Please look, when I first got ill my T was higher than it is now.

I get nocturnal and morning erections most nights however they are weaker than before and disappear quickly.

I don't get any spontaneous erections which I believe prolactin to be the issue. I have trailed cabergoline which is the only thing that resolves this issue for me, however after a few weeks things wear off in terms of erection hardness. Ive read studies of Prolactin stimulating 5 alpha reductase activity. The thing is I am growing body hair all the time, I am like a chimp. I am still receding as well.


I have had my 3 adiol G tested and it is nearly over range so this shows my 5 alpha reductase activity is still good.

My symptoms as of now


Not much libido

No
spontaneous Erections

Weight loss

Muscle loss especially in arms

Joint pain, hips especially. They are cracking all the time and feel extremely weak. I feel like a 90 year old man I can't move out of the chair sometimes with fear of the pain.

Slower brain functioning

Exercise intolerance, I am so fatigued all the time and have zero energy to do anything at all. If i try I gas out quickly and it will ruin my sleep for that night.



I am left with normal T, low free T, very low e2, optimal DHT, high SHBG

I am visiting my endo next week and I am going to be demanding some sort of treatment as I just keep being left to suffer. I can't do it anymore. I haven't been able to work in two years. I got fobbed off as a chronic fatigue patient that ''will recover in time''. Whether it is the head trauma or one stupid pill of saw palmetto, I want my life back. Please no go check the propecia help site out as Ive seen that and its full of doom and gloom. I want something productive!


Thanks for taking the time to read this.
 

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CoastWatcher

Moderator
Welcome to Excelmale; I am sorry you are dealing with these issues. Your experience with the NHS is one that other members of the Forum who live in the UK have recounted. Are you willing to seek private treatment, outside of the NHS?
 

lookingforhelp

New Member
Welcome to Excelmale; I am sorry you are dealing with these issues. Your experience with the NHS is one that other members of the Forum who live in the UK have recounted. Are you willing to seek private treatment, outside of the NHS?


Hi, yes I have gone privately with my endocrinologists but unfortunately, every endocrinologist also works for the NHS so you get to see them quicker (no waiting list) but you have the same treatment.


My main questions for you guys are:

1. How is it possible to have a testosterone level of 19 nmol/l but free test and E2 in the shitter?. When I first got ill I had high test and low DHT. Now its reversed, I seem to have low everything else and a high DHT. Has my body got out of whack thinking it needs to produce DHT like mad from lowering DHT too much?

2. How do I naturally raise E2? I can't seem to find anything on this other than TRT to try and get Test to spill over to E2.

3. Whats the average SHBG for my age? Im currently at around 50 nmol/l. Is this the reason for my low free t and E2?

Any help would be appreciated and thanks for your quick responses.
 

1Draw

Member
We've all experienced at one point in time a lot of your symptoms or we would not be members here - and we feel your pain! I am by no means an expert but, judging by your symptoms it appears more towards low e2 more than anything else. See attached posted on PeakTestosterone forum symptoms of low estrogen:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/HRT_Estradiol_Men.aspx.

Low Estradiol: fatigue along the lines of sleepiness; hypersomnia (sleeping to much and too often); strong erections but limited sensitivity; loss of erections; osteoporosis and osteopenia; joint pain; clicking or popping joints; eye fatigue; loss of libido; difficulty retaining water (constant urination); anxiety, depression, irritability.

Your test for Oestradiol - ranges of 99-192, was 23.2 on 3/17/16 but was not tested on 6/2. Total Testosterone is mid range with Free Testosterone on the lower end. The cabergoline got your high prolactin back in normal ranges so that is not an issue now. IMO, you are definitely a candidate for T therapy considering your low Free T and low Oestradiol.

Raising your Total T will increase your Oestradiol, Free T and also lower your SHBG. Your SHBG is not high at 49 with a range of 15-64.

Good luck and hang in there!
 
Last edited:

lookingforhelp

New Member
Id just like to thank you for replying to my post so quickly. It really means a lot to me as I have been crying out for help from someone, somewhere! For you to look at my results and give me some constructive feedback, something that I can actually use and put into practice has made my day and given me hope. Sounds ****ing stupid but Ive been on one hell of a journey! I think sometimes being acknowledged by someone else that you have a problem is reassuring rather than being told by Docs you are fine and a head case.

Do you think I should try something like HCG therapy first? Considering my low e2, if I was to supplement T, are injections or the gels better?

Thats again to you all.


We've all experienced at one point in time a lot of your symptoms or we would not be members here - and we feel your pain! I am by no means an expert but, judging by your symptoms it appears more towards low e2 more than anything else. See attached posted on PeakTestosterone forum symptoms of low estrogen:



Low Estradiol: fatigue along the lines of sleepiness; hypersomnia (sleeping to much and too often); strong erections but limited sensitivity; loss of erections; osteoporosis and osteopenia; joint pain; clicking or popping joints; eye fatigue; loss of libido; difficulty retaining water (constant urination); anxiety, depression, irritability.

Your test for Oestradiol - ranges of 99-192, was 23.2 on 3/17/16 but was not tested on 6/2. Total Testosterone is mid range with Free Testosterone on the lower end. The cabergoline got your high prolactin back in normal ranges so that is not an issue now. IMO, you are definitely a candidate for T therapy considering your low Free T and low Oestradiol.

Raising your Total T will increase your Oestradiol, Free T and also lower your SHBG. Your SHBG is not high at 49 with a range of 15-64.

Good luck and hang in there!
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
You took a box of supplements/vitamins containing Saw Palmetto, and then went an purchased a bottle of Saw Palmetto, taking one of those tablets, is that right? You wonder how your problems could have started if you only took the one pill from the bottle labled "Saw Palmetto." But, if that is the case, you took a lot more SP than "one pill." I don't mean to be harsh, but you MAY have ingested sufficient SP to cause a significant endocrine disruption. More and more material appears that points to Saw Palmetto being a substance with a wicked kick for some, perhaps many, men. But I am not a doctor, I raise this to urge you to make sure the doctors you meet with address the issue.

What, if anything, have the doctors you've consulted said about this? And what do,they saw about the head injury? Was it a concussion?

I can only imagine how frustrating for you.
 

1Draw

Member
Nothing that I am aware of can raise estradiol like Testosterone can. There are probably some medications doctors will give women who are low on estrogen that will increase it but, I have no idea.

Flax Seed and Soy products do increase estrogens but very slowly. That may help in the short term but, testosterone shots once weekly in a sizable dose would be my best guess the quickest way to increase it. You do not want to do gels, just the shots once weekly of either T Cypionate or one of the other compounds. I was on 140 mg week of T Cypionate and my estradiol sensitive shot up from 24 to 41. I am now back on 100 mg a week to help lower it.

Also, HCG shots will increase estradiol so discuss that with your doctor. You might suggest 500 mg 2-3 times a week and retest after 4 weeks.

Hopefully Nelson or one of the other moderator's can add to this. It is very rare on this forum or any other to find a situation that you have. I think this is the first thread I've read where someone had very, very low estradiol. Very rare.
 

lookingforhelp

New Member
Clomid and DHEA can raise estradiol. This gives some background on the use of DHEA in that regard.



Ive looked into the whole DHEA thing but my levels already seem to be near the top of the range so I am concerned about maybe going too high?

In regards to the saw palmetto, the multivitamins only had a small amount in them. The jar of just saw palmetto could have been strong though I guess. I have mentioned this to Drs and most Drs in this country don't believe Propecia has any side effects so try getting them to believe that a herb could do something like this is near impossible!

My head injury was pretty substantial. I was assaulted with a bottle and it got me in a very bad area. I suffered a lot of swelling and bruising. Lost a lot of blood and was very concussed. Lacerations to my face which are now scars.

Im hoping I am not as screwed as some propecia guys and I honestly don't think I am in that respect. I don't have the shrinkage and coldness that some claim. Maybe some insensitivity now which has gotten worse since my E2 got so low. I don't have watery ejaculate or any stuff like that.

I would like to do HCG if I manage to get on Test shots. Testicle size is important to me, I think I would be freaked out by them atrophying. Is this something I should definitely push to the Dr? I can tell it is going to be a bastard to try and get on the NHS.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
Tree are private clinics in London that I know of. I have no specific knowledge of their practices, but if the NHS continues to frustrate you, a consultation might be of value. You may already be aware of them; if not, please let me know and I will provide links.
 
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