Recent Lab work after switching to EOD injections and trying to dial in E2

I started EOD test injections over a month ago. I have been injecting 32mg EOD along with 250ius of hcg. I had been feeling pretty good on this protocol and was going to get lab work to see where I was. I stupidly decided to inject 350ius of hcg one day. I had noticed that my orgasm was better after my hcg injection. I had had sex that morning and was going for round 2. It worked but was short lived. My orgasm was great for round 2 but the next day less morning wood and the next day no morning wood and no ability to get an erection. I assumed I had a self induced E2 spike, so I waited another 10 days before getting lab work. I injected 32mgs on Monday along with 220ius of Hcg. I got blood drawn before my next shot on Wednesday.

My test was 1316 and free test was 17.3, and I just got my sensitive estradiol test back which came back at 47.2.

After I got the test and free test results and before I had the sensitive E test back, I thought my E2 would be through the roof, so as a precautionary measure, I switched to taking 125ius of HCG every day, and I took a DIM capsule that I used to take when I thought my e2 might be high and was on 200mgs a week. 24 hours later I had an orgasm of .5 on a 10 scale. I barely knew it happened. I was having sex with the gf and felt the build up and then nothing. She knew what had happened. This had happened one time before, and I knew it was a classic case of LOW E2. I jammed 180 ius of HCG the next day after having switched to 125 to lower it, and the next night my orgasm was great again (had to take 5mgs of Cialis as I was not confident of what my hormones would be like). I think the DIM was more powerful than I though (or I might have been low to begin with).

So, my questions are the following:

1. Should I go back to the 30-32mg EOD with 250ius of HCG EOD that had initially felt good for a month or stick with the current 30mg of test EOD and 125 ius of HCG every day and retest in a couple of weeks?

2. An E2 of 47 seems VERY high to me, but if I look at my TE ratio, it's 28 which is pretty good according to what I have read on here.

3. My goal was to feel good yes, but I wanted to be at a consistent test of about 1000 and E of 25-35. I know that when my regular E test was at 25-30 with a test of 1000-1200, I felt great and erections and sex were great without cialis. So, should I lower my test from 30 EOD to 20 or 25? That just seems way low...70-87.5mg per week effectively.

Trying to dial this S* in is tough

This>>> I knew it was a classic case of LOW E2. I jammed 180 ius of HCG the next day after having switched to 125 to lower it

, sounds like you're a classic case of not knowing a classic case of anything

If you do not have any overt high E2 symptoms then its unlikely that you are too high, and remember, its best not to worry about hitting a specific number on the E2 test.

I would stick with the current 30mg of test EOD and 125 ius of HCG every day and retest in 4 weeks, but again, judge 'success' more by how you feel not by what numbers show up on the test. Be sure not to change anything for at least 4 weeks before the next test as well or else you wont be stable.

ERO said:

Be sure not to change anything for at least 4 weeks before the next test

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Change nothing...not a single thing in your protocol...or you're chasing too many shadows.

Thanks ERO and Coastwatcher for the advice! I'll keep it the same an retest in 2-4 weeks. Good erection quality seems to have returned which makes me a happy camper. I know I'm a bit all over the place, but I'm trying to tweak things to find that sweet spot and protocol that works for me

maxadvance said:

This>>> I knew it was a classic case of LOW E2. I jammed 180 ius of HCG the next day after having switched to 125 to lower it

, sounds like you're a classic case of not knowing a classic case of anything

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Granted, I freaked out a bit when I couldn't orgasm during sex, but I think that's understandable. Most guys would. I appreciate all of the positive or constructive feedback that I get on this site. I don't see how your comment falls into either of those categories

The ratio concept always puts for that E2 being over lab range is the place to be. Your ratio of 28, is not good, contrary to your remark. 14-20 is the theory for ratio.

I would draw your attention to a very obvious thing that goes hand in hand with my comment, you're doing better, on a higher E2 scale. You should be able to add that up without a problem. It's known that HCG affects E2 in the testes differently than outside the testes. According to Dr Saya, it's via the aromataze enzyme but the environment in the testes makes an AI less effective on that E2 source (I'm paraphrasing for simplicity).

So obvious, to me, your body likes a higher Estrogen level. Remember, truly, there is no HIGH E2 level. There's no number that is HIGH. I pulled a 58 a couple weeks ago while messing with some HCG doses. My ratio though was 16 and really wasn't having any high E2 symptoms. Symptoms, negative symptoms, are key.

I say use your 250iu, maybe titrate UP and see how you feel.

On a related note your TT is atronomical on 32mg EOD, you couldn't possibly have had a blood draw ~48hrs and just prior to your next injection, there's no way on Earth you're shooting 32mg EOD and in the 1400's on a "trough".

HoustonTX said:

Granted, I freaked out a bit when I couldn't orgasm during sex, but I think that's understandable. Most guys would. I appreciate all of the positive or constructive feedback that I get on this site. I don't see how your comment falls into either of those categories

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He's pointing out to you that you speak as though you know something yet at the same time clearly demonstrate that you do not.

Vince Carter said:

The ratio concept always puts for that E2 being over lab range is the place to be. Your ratio of 28, is not good, contrary to your remark. 14-20 is the theory for ratio.

I would draw your attention to a very obvious thing that goes hand in hand with my comment, you're doing better, on a higher E2 scale. You should be able to add that up without a problem. It's known that HCG affects E2 in the testes differently than outside the testes. According to Dr Saya, it's via the aromataze enzyme but the environment in the testes makes an AI less effective on that E2 source (I'm paraphrasing for simplicity).

So obvious, to me, your body likes a higher Estrogen level. Remember, truly, there is no HIGH E2 level. There's no number that is HIGH. I pulled a 58 a couple weeks ago while messing with some HCG doses. My ratio though was 16 and really wasn't having any high E2 symptoms. Symptoms, negative symptoms, are key.

I say use your 250iu, maybe titrate UP and see how you feel.

On a related note your TT is atronomical on 32mg EOD, you couldn't possibly have had a blood draw ~48hrs and just prior to your next injection, there's no way on Earth you're shooting 32mg EOD and in the 1400's on a "trough".

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I realized that according to the ratio concept that I would need to have even higher e2 to get into the 16-20 ratio which just seemed hard to imagine.

I never imagined that my test would be that high on 32mg EOD injections. I was shocked and posted a thread asking why whether I was getting my blood drawn at the correct time. My test level was lower in my trough on 200mg a week injecting 3.5 days. I injected 32mg of test cyp Monday and injected 220ius of hcg and I had my blood drawn on Wednesday before my next injection. I don't know how else to do it. I had been injecting 32mg EOD for about 6 weeks. Pulling the syringe to the 16 mark on a 29 gauge .5 inch syringe. The only variable was that I had injected 350ius one day vs the 250ius that I had been injecting EOD at the same time as my test injection but that was 10 days prior to this test injection. It had some negative consequences, so I backed my hcg down to the 200 mark over the next couple of injection, went back up to 220 the next couple of injections before the blood draw. An extra 100ius of hcg 10 days prior to my blood work wouldnt skew my test result would it? If I'm doing this wrong, tell me.

I was shocked as well and can understand why it's hard to imagine. But it is what it is. I'm paying for these tests, so I want them to be accurate.

ERO said this was a benefit of EOD injections

If I want to go back to 250 I do injections of Hcg every other day, would I need to skip my next 125iu shot?

It won't matter much either way, but that may make it easier to mentally get back on that schedule. The most important thing is to stick to it for 4 weeks minimum before your next blood work without any changes. I know it is tempting to try to tweak the protocol as you go, but your body needs at least 4 weeks to adjust and settle in to a change, otherwise your numbers on the blood work are not necessarily accurate, and then you try to tweak again on the inaccurate numbers and it just gets to where you are chasing your tail - and spending a ton more money on blood tests than you really need to.

After my defy consult I switched to 125 of HCG daily and for whatever reason me and my balls like this much better!

Excellent! - That means you have found your 'sweet spot' for HCG and you don't need to tweak dosages at all anymore. One less thing to try to dial-in is always a good thing!

ERO said:

Excellent! - That means you have found your 'sweet spot' for HCG and you don't need to tweak dosages at all anymore. One less thing to try to dial-in is always a good thing!

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Yes, prior to this change I really didn't see the value or even want to continue it... Crazy how an adjustment can make all the difference in the world...

ERO said:

It won't matter much either way, but that may make it easier to mentally get back on that schedule. The most important thing is to stick to it for 4 weeks minimum before your next blood work without any changes. I know it is tempting to try to tweak the protocol as you go, but your body needs at least 4 weeks to adjust and settle in to a change, otherwise your numbers on the blood work are not necessarily accurate, and then you try to tweak again on the inaccurate numbers and it just gets to where you are chasing your tail - and spending a ton more money on blood tests than you really need to.

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December 15th was when I had gotten my test results back on 50mg EOD which had me at a test level over 1500, and several people on the forum, including you and Vince suggested that I go to 30mg EOD. It seem low and 32 seem more palatable for some reason. So, I started EOD injections of 32mg on 12/15. My next blood draw which has me at 1316 was done on 1/13, so it should have settled in by then. The only thing I have tweaked since was going to 125iu hcg everyday and that was done on 1/16 when I got my test results back and assumed my E2 would be too high.

In general, I agree with you, though. I shouldn't tweak as I go along. It sounds like I am doing more tweaking than I am. Nothing was tweaked prior to the 4 weeks that I was on 32mg EOD test and 250iu hcg. I thought it would be a fun experiment to inject 350 vs 250 ius of hcg once to see what it did for sex. I didn't think an extra 100ius would have that much significance

I will keep with a 30mg EOD and 125iu of HCG daily and retest. I will report back, after I retest in 2 weeks. Any feedback about how I can get a more accurate test or time of getting my blood drawn is appreciated

Just from my personal experience, when I progressively scaled down from 150mg a week (75mg M T injections took me to about 1500 Total T) to 100mg (50mg M T injections) it took longer than 6 weeks to see the actual values. At the 6 weeks mark it looked like I was still getting the benefits of that larger dose. I just retested after 8 more weeks on 100mg and the values are quite lower than I expected. Still in a good range, but I'm moving up to 125mg.

HoustonTX said:

I will keep with a 30mg EOD and 125iu of HCG daily and retest. I will report back, after I retest in 2 weeks. Any feedback about how I can get a more accurate test or time of getting my blood drawn is appreciated

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When you retest please include SHBG and obviously TT, Free T, and Sensitive E2. Very curious what your SHBG is.

Thanks, icvl....I didn't think it would take that long. I thought that switching to 32mg EOD would put me no higher than 800 for my test value and maybe lower. I expected to have to raise my dose from 32mg not lower it. I'm going to be testing again, so, hopefully, it will continue to go down, and I can calibrate up from there base on how I feel and how and backed up by labs

I planned on getting my SHGB tested when I felt closer to being dialed in/finding my sweet spot. These tests even with the discount through this site is $67 or so. I've paid that 2-3 times over the past 6-8 weeks, and I'll be paying that again probably twice over the next month. So, I'm only going to get my SHGB tested once. I had it tested when I went to visit Lipshultz. My SHGB value was in range, but he uses some other than normal test.... Some ut test. My testosterone value was 500 something on his test, and I was still on 200mg a week when he drew blood for my test. Theres no way that's accurate. I have close to 3 years of tests with around 30 blood work results, and I have never been below 900. So, I don't think I can count on his labs SHGB result either