Good Fats vs Bad Fats

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Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
By Michael Mooney
From Built to Survive


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While it is also best to reduce any excessive intake of fats, I don’t advocate a very low-fat diet, but a reduction in excess saturated fats, found in animal fat products like butter and lard, and excess omega-6 fats, which are found in common vegetable oils, like corn, safflower, and sunflower oils. Excess saturated fats and omega-6 fats can promote insulin resistance.[SUP]115[/SUP] http://www.excelmale.com/#_edn1 [ii] [iii] At the same time I recommend a moderate intake of fresh food sources of the essential fatty acid called omega-3, which can reduce insulin resistance,[iv] and reduce the potential for atherosclerosis and heart attacks.[v] [vi] Omega-3 fats are found abundantly in cold water fish like salmon, sardines, tuna, rainbow trout, anchovies, and herring, and in lesser amounts in flax seed oil, some nuts and seeds and beans, like walnuts, pumpkin seeds, and in much smaller quantities in dark green leafy vegetables. Consider also including some daily consumption of monounsaturated fats from sources like olive oil. These too reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease.

Data also suggests that high saturated fat in the diet promotes more bodyfat accumulation compared to polyunsaturated fats like omega-3 fats,[vii] [viii] so if you want to be lean, eat clean.

Finally, avoid eating any food that contain artificial fats or processed fats, like hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils. Partially hydrogenated oils are found in foods like margarine, french fries, potato chips, shortening, many baked goods, and mayonnaise. Harvard researchers have found a very strong link between these types of unhealthy fats and cardiovascular disease.[ix]


http://www.excelmale.com/#_ednref1 Storlien, LH, et al. Influence of dietary fat composition on development of insulin resistance in rats. Relationship to muscle triglyceride and omega-3 fatty acids in muscle phospholipid. Diabetes (1991) 40(2):280-289.

[ii] Berry, EM. Dietary fatty acids in the management of diabetes mellitus. Am J Clin Nutr (1997) 66(4 Suppl):991S-997S.

[iii] Yam, D, et al. Diet and disease—the Israeli paradox: possible dangers of a high omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid diet. Isr J Med Sci (1996) 32(11):1134-1143.

[iv] Liu, S, et al. Dietary omega-3 and polyunsaturated fatty acids modify fatty acid composition and insulin binding in skeletal-muscle sarcolemma. Biochem J (1994) 299 (pt 3):831-837.

[v] Ponte, E, et al. Cardiovascular disease and omega-3 fatty acids. Minerva Med (1997) 88(9):343-53.

[vi] Mori, TA, et al. Interactions between dietary fat, fish, and fish oils and their effects on platelet function in men at risk of cardiovascular disease. Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol (1997) 17(2):279-286.

[vii] Tatsuhiro, M, et al., et al. Beef tallow diet decreases lipoprotein lipase activities in brown adipose tissue, heart, and soleus muscle in reducing sympathetic activities in rats. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (1994) _40:569-581

[viii] Okuno M, et al., Perilla oil prevents the excessive growth of visceral adipose tissue in rats by down-regulating adipocyte differentiation. J Nutr (1997) 127(9):1752-1757.

[ix] Ascherio, A, et al. Health effects of trans fatty acids. Am J Clin Nutr (1997) 66(4 Suppl):1006S-1010S.
 
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paco

Member
Kallu,

Sorry to be so terse, but I don't believe you are educated on this issue. There are plenty of healthy, fresh foods with moderate and even high amounts of fat in them which should be included in one's diet. Low fat diets and many of the resulting modifications have done more harm than good to this nation's health.

Of course, if you have evidence to substantiate your opinion, please feel free to share.

Paco
 
@ kallu, Fat is a must for the intestinal absorption of lipid-soluble vitamins. It is also the key source of metabolic energy and the building blocks of all cells in the body.
 
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Mooney's viewpoint is totally wrong about SFAs and is based on now obsolete research. A reduction in SFAs reduces the good (large particle) LDL. SFAs do not promote IR, excess carbs and PUFAs (including excess omega 3s) do. Also, he is wrong that SFAs promote excess body fat. Again, excess carbs, PUFAs, and of course, excess calories do. The only true bad fats are processed trans fats.

He needs to get up to date on the latest science. This LA Times article just came out today:

http://www.latimes.com/science/scie...ed-fat-20131022,0,2193813.story#axzz2iUotmaMg
 

JWSimpkins

Member
Agreed. Any fats that are more susceptible to lipid peroxidation (PUFA) are not good in large quantities. I'm a huge fan of coconut oil and it's the largest source of fat in my diet.
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
Good point, Marco. Good article.

"Malhotra cites a 2009 UCLA study showing that three-quarters of patients admitted to the hospital with acute myocardial infarction do not have high total cholesterol; what they do have, at a rate of 66%, is metabolic syndrome -- a cluster of worrying signs including hypertension, high fasting blood sugar, abdominal obesity, high triglycerides and low HDL ("good" cholesterol).Meanwhile, research has shown that when people with high LDL cholesterol (the "bad" kind) purge their diet of saturated fats, they lower one kind of LDL (the large, buoyant particles called "Type A" LDL), but not the small, dense particles ("Type B" LDL) that are linked to high carbohydrate intake and are implicated in heart disease.
Recent research has also shown that Mediterranean diets -- admittedly skimpy on red meat but hardly light on saturated fats -- have outpaced both statins and low-fat diets as a means of preventing repeat heart attacks. Other research suggests that the saturated fat in dairy foods may protect against hypertension, inflammation and a host of other dysfunctions increasingly linked to heart attacks."
 

Traderj

Member
Guys I am coming late to the game on this thread but I am trying to figure out what would be a safe and effective plan for eating. I dont want to say diet because diets dont really work in the long run.

From this site and other sites. The idea seems to be that dietary fat is not bad for you as long as it is Saturated Fats (coconut oil, butter, lard, olive oil), and bad for you if it is Polyunsaturated fats. As far as I can tell Poly unsaturated fats or PUFAs (omega 6, and most omega 3's) seem to be the real killer. They cause excessive inflammation, insulin resistance, weight gain and fat retention. And all kinds of other bad things. It appears that PUFAs are easily stored in the body and can be one of the primary causes of obesity and even type II diabetes and some cancers.

The problem is how do you eat knowing this very harmful substance is in just about everything you eat. (for example anything fried, anything processed, any salad dressing, mayonaise, sauces, any thing with vegetable oil in it which is a huge area, and on and on) Are we just supposed to eat baked chicken and brocoli forever? I can eventually figure out what to eat and prepare at home by going to specialty food stores or some farmers markets. (remember chickens and cows and pigs are fed grains in large factory feedlots, these grain feeds are loaded with PUFAs and stay in the meat).

So assuming I can find sources of these meats and eggs, that our body needs. This is only part of the time. Many of of us work and travel. This means we are eating at restaurants, heaven forbid sometimes fast food restaurants, trying to make it to the next appointment or travel destination.

I just dont understand how we are supposed to do this realistically? Within reason what do you other guys many of you over 40 with busy lives like myself do with this?

Thanks,
 
Guys I am coming late to the game on this thread but I am trying to figure out what would be a safe and effective plan for eating. I dont want to say diet because diets dont really work in the long run.

From this site and other sites. The idea seems to be that dietary fat is not bad for you as long as it is Saturated Fats (coconut oil, butter, lard, olive oil), and bad for you if it is Polyunsaturated fats. As far as I can tell Poly unsaturated fats or PUFAs (omega 6, and most omega 3's) seem to be the real killer. They cause excessive inflammation, insulin resistance, weight gain and fat retention. And all kinds of other bad things. It appears that PUFAs are easily stored in the body and can be one of the primary causes of obesity and even type II diabetes and some cancers.

The problem is how do you eat knowing this very harmful substance is in just about everything you eat. (for example anything fried, anything processed, any salad dressing, mayonaise, sauces, any thing with vegetable oil in it which is a huge area, and on and on) Are we just supposed to eat baked chicken and brocoli forever? I can eventually figure out what to eat and prepare at home by going to specialty food stores or some farmers markets. (remember chickens and cows and pigs are fed grains in large factory feedlots, these grain feeds are loaded with PUFAs and stay in the meat).

So assuming I can find sources of these meats and eggs, that our body needs. This is only part of the time. Many of of us work and travel. This means we are eating at restaurants, heaven forbid sometimes fast food restaurants, trying to make it to the next appointment or travel destination.

I just dont understand how we are supposed to do this realistically? Within reason what do you other guys many of you over 40 with busy lives like myself do with this?

Thanks,

Sounds like you've done your homework on PUFAs. Now, it's a matter of using the same discipline with anything else in your daily life, and applying it to something you obviosuly feel is important enough so as to limit its deleterious effects.

PUFAs are indeed everything you pointed out and are unfortunately in excess in just about all commercial foods and restaurants. Even if olive oil, which is one of the oils highest in MUFAs and lowest in PUFAs, is used in the food prep, it is usually oxidized/rancid by the time you are served your plate. Oxided fats are even worse for you! Therefore, eating out should be restricted. Those on the road need to develop better meal prep discipline if they want to preserve their health. Stay away from all commercially-raised meats, farm-raised seafood, and eat only organic, pastured, free range. Yes, it's more expensive and takes more time to prep, but it's an investment in your health, and there is nothing in life more of a priority than that. The only oils any of us should use are the ones highest in MUFAs (olive, macadamia nut, avocado), and if safe for your specific genotype, whole food SFAs (extra virgin coconut oil, eggs, raw butter, red palm oil, raw milk dairy and cheese).
http://paleozonenutrition.com/2011/...uts-oils-meat-and-fish-tools-to-get-it-right/

For me, it's easy, because I've been eating this way for the last 30+ years and know how to navigate around all the commercial crap, restaurants, and the SAD (standard american diet).

I have tested my DNA and have found I have a genetic variant called APOA5 that restricts me to no more than 6% of PUFAs, otherwise my trigs go way up: http://www.gbhealthwatch.com/GND-High-Blood-Triglycerides-APOA5.php

So I have to use even more discipline than others when it comes to PUFAs. Nuts are a healthy, wonderful food, but I have to limit them as well, since they are highest in PUFAs. As such, I have found a wonderful product called Thrive Algae Oil: http://www.thrivealgae.com/thrive-algae-oil/ that has the highest % of MUFAs of any oil currently available (online only). I use it as my main ingredient in my homemade mayo (which I should market it's so great tasting!).

I will occasionally cheat with some organic almond butter as long as I keep it within the limits. PUFAs from fish oil (omega 3s) don't affect me negatively, so I take 5g of fish, krill, and green-lipped mussel oil daily.

Hope that helps.
 
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Wow, I've been keeping it simple.

Butter anytime I eat eggs. Meats I really do not discriminate. At some point I'm tempted to move to as many Omega-3 (grass-fed) meats as much as possible. That will be more of a financial decision. I have a book on Paleo by Robb Wolf and while he prefers we eat grass-fed he even says if you eat grain-fed meat but stop eating bagels you are making progress.

I do have some chicken probably 3 meals per week. Beef probably 2-3 meals. I was using MCT oil and having bulletproof coffee each morning but it seemed to cause me some immediate trips to the bathroom which is merely inconvenient.

I do eat some things that probably are not ideal. Bacon maybe once a week, though sometimes I get the nitrate free bacon. Occasionally some pepperoni. Cheese, and whipped cream. I also purchase Atkins bars which tend to be around 16g protein and pretty low in net carbs.

I've been on this for 3 years now so for my body type eating a lot of meat is apparently not causing too many issues. Triglycerides are good, but on the last report the LDL was slightly high, so I added fish oil and niacin. Overall cholesterol was 172. Incidentally Defy was not too concerned with the LDL.
 
Wow, I've been keeping it simple.

Butter anytime I eat eggs. Meats I really do not discriminate. At some point I'm tempted to move to as many Omega-3 (grass-fed) meats as much as possible. That will be more of a financial decision. I have a book on Paleo by Robb Wolf and while he prefers we eat grass-fed he even says if you eat grain-fed meat but stop eating bagels you are making progress.

I do have some chicken probably 3 meals per week. Beef probably 2-3 meals. I was using MCT oil and having bulletproof coffee each morning but it seemed to cause me some immediate trips to the bathroom which is merely inconvenient.

I do eat some things that probably are not ideal. Bacon maybe once a week, though sometimes I get the nitrate free bacon. Occasionally some pepperoni. Cheese, and whipped cream. I also purchase Atkins bars which tend to be around 16g protein and pretty low in net carbs.

I've been on this for 3 years now so for my body type eating a lot of meat is apparently not causing too many issues. Triglycerides are good, but on the last report the LDL was slightly high, so I added fish oil and niacin. Overall cholesterol was 172. Incidentally Defy was not too concerned with the LDL.


1) Bacon is great IF it is the right kind and cooked low heat (sometimes I even steam mine - no, not as tasty as fried, but still good). I get the paleo-friendly, sugar-free free-range turkey bacon from Wellshire Farms. http://www.wellshirefarms.com/allergy-free-foods-database/01116-Sugar-Free-PALEO-Turkey-Bacon

2) Slightly elevated TC (total cholesterol) and LDL-C is meaningless in today's science. Docs quick to put anyone on statins when TC is >200 but <250 are practicing obsolete science and lining the pockets of Big Pharma. The only exceptions are those that have a genetic condition called FH (familial hypercholesterolemia) in which TC can go into the 300s+.

It is the particle size and number that is relevant. Same for HDL. In fact, NOT all HDL is good HDL, despite everything we've been told. Standard lipid panels are crap and tell us nothing. You want to do an advanced lipid panel. The best is the NMR LipoProfile (LabCorp) or the CardioIQ Advanced Lipid Profiles (Quest) that show the LDL and HDL subfractions. The goal is to shift away from Pattern B (small dense particle) to Pattern A (large, fluffy particle). Also, important to measure all other LDL subtypes (APOA, APOB, Lp(a), Lp-PLA2, and the APOE gene).
 
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Traderj

Member
Marco,

Thanks for the concise and in depth answer this really helps.
I am going to puruse the ideas you have mentioned as a start. Do you have a recipe for your mayonnaise?
I need to pursue other references to come up with more ideas to find safe clean foods.
Also you talked about Cholesterol and the scam that is being perpetrated on the American people. I agree there is a huge effort to market Statin drugs to people with a slightly elevated cholesterol and poses its own set of risks.

In fact I view elevated cholesterol as a good thing. Cholesterol is manufactured by our bodies in order to do many things. Even the work sterol is the root for indicating that many hormones are manufactured from it.

Midlife, Thanks for the ideas. This helps me to get going.

Where are you guys going to find these low PUFA foods?
 
Marco,

Thanks for the concise and in depth answer this really helps.
I am going to puruse the ideas you have mentioned as a start. Do you have a recipe for your mayonnaise?
I need to pursue other references to come up with more ideas to find safe clean foods.
Also you talked about Cholesterol and the scam that is being perpetrated on the American people. I agree there is a huge effort to market Statin drugs to people with a slightly elevated cholesterol and poses its own set of risks.

In fact I view elevated cholesterol as a good thing. Cholesterol is manufactured by our bodies in order to do many things. Even the work sterol is the root for indicating that many hormones are manufactured from it.

Midlife, Thanks for the ideas. This helps me to get going.

Where are you guys going to find these low PUFA foods?

I get all my foods from Whole Foods and the organic section in my local grocer.

My basic recipe for my "Paleonnaise" is:

1 cup Thrive Oil
1/4 cup Extra Virgin Olive Oil
1/4 cup Avocado Oil
1 tbsp apple cider vinegar
1 tbsp freeze-squeezed organic lemon juice
2 egg yolks (I use pastured duck eggs - way more nutrition than chicken eggs)
1 whole egg
20 sprinkles organic cayennne pepper
10 sprinkles of organic garlic/onion powder
1/2 tsp organic mustard
1/2 tsp Himalayan pink salt

Secret: all ingredients must be room temp! Eggs will not emulsify if refrigerated.

And these are the instructions I follow: http://dish.allrecipes.com/making-mayonnaise/

This makes for the healthiest fats "****tail" you can eat. The best of the best in MUFAs and SFAs with very little PUFAs. I could throw in some coconut oil, but it would likely solidify when refrigerated. My concontion last for 2 weeks.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
Ingredients Avocado Oil, Organic Cage-Free Eggs, Organic Egg Yolks, Organic Vinegar, Sea Salt, Rosemary Extract. Serving Size 1 tbsp (15g) Servings Per Container 24
Amount Per Serving
Calories 100 Calories from Fat 100

% Daily Value*
Total Fat 12g 18% DV Saturated Fat 1.5g 8% DV
Trans Fat 0g

Cholesterol 15mg 5% DV
Sodium 115mg 5% DV
Total Carbohydrate 0g 0% Dietary Fiber 0g 0% DV
Sugars 0g 0% DV

Protein 0g 0% DV

Iron 0g 0% DV

Contains: Eggs. 020115.

any opinions?

[h=2]Primal Kitchen[/b]Avocado Oil Mayo
 
Ingredients Avocado Oil, Organic Cage-Free Eggs, Organic Egg Yolks, Organic Vinegar, Sea Salt, Rosemary Extract. Serving Size 1 tbsp (15g) Servings Per Container 24
Amount Per Serving
Calories 100 Calories from Fat 100

% Daily Value*
Total Fat 12g 18% DV Saturated Fat 1.5g 8% DV
Trans Fat 0g

Cholesterol 15mg 5% DV
Sodium 115mg 5% DV
Total Carbohydrate 0g 0% Dietary Fiber 0g 0% DV
Sugars 0g 0% DV

Protein 0g 0% DV

Iron 0g 0% DV

Contains: Eggs. 020115.

any opinions?

Primal Kitchen

Avocado Oil Mayo

Mark Sisson's product is the best commercially available IMO, however, since many of us are allergic to chicken eggs, I chose to make my own using duck eggs (which are more nutritionally dense). Also, the Thrive Oil I use is even higher in MUFAs and lower in PUFAs than either avocado or olive oil.
 

Traderj

Member
Vince,

Thanks for the heads up. I am going to try this and also going to try Marco's recipe.

I also like the site. Finally a place with some intelligent food choices.
 

Traderj

Member
Hey one other question is in a related area. What about sugar? What is your opinion on sugar? I know in the low carb high protein world sugar is considered one of the dangerous and inflammatory foods. And of course one of the causes of diabetes.

Now I am hearing from more than one source that sugar does not cause diabetes at all, and is not bad for you. And that sugar is ok. But I am skeptical. In addition I am now hearing about studies that show that artificial sweeteners are harmful. Specifically they kill the beneficial bacteria in our gut needed for digestion and the protection of our bionome (spelling?). In fact I have heard of studies showing artificial sweeteners doing the same thing to our gut bacteria as a dose of antibiotics.

What are your thoughts on this? Is there a safe and inexpensive sweetening route?
 

Vince

Super Moderator
I can give you my opinion, don't eat sugar and don't eat artificial sweeteners. Industries pay a lot of money for studies to promote their products.
 
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