balancing low ferritin levels and frequent donation.

Buy Lab Tests Online

Concerned wife

New Member
Ratbag (I hate typing that!), well, guess what?

We found out today that it wasn't that my husband's doctor wasn't concerned about the numbers. He just wasn't paying attention. You said your doctor and hematologist weren't concerned because your platelets were low but in range.

Do you have any information you could share, that I could share with my husband's doctor? His HCT is 56 but his ferritin is only 50 and that's after avoiding dumping blood for a long time now. His nurse today said he wants my husband to go every 2 weeks until HGB is under 16. Why?! It's only just past 18 now which is still listed as normal on the labs. My husband will feel like garbage again if he goes and off-loads that much blood and yet, he needs the testosterone. We feel very stuck. He's going to feel like crap to get rid of that much blood and also like crap if he has to discontinue testosterone. Lowering the dose NEVER lowers those numbers (RBC, HGB and HCT).

How did your doctors determine that you had erythrocytosis rather than polycythemia?

I also did not understand about your bleeding condition. My husband also bleeds freely but I thought it was because of the lumbrokinase, nattokinase and serrapeptase we give him. Is there a reason for yours?

ANY INPUT YOU CAN GIVE ME WOULD BE APPRECIATED. Thanks!
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor

ratbag

Member
My MD works in a wellness clinic and that clinic has 20 MD's or close to that. My MD told me he went to the resident hemotologist and that MD told him that I was ok and not to worry about it. So I do not know the details. I suspect that my CBC gives him all the info he needs. My platelets are 192 (150-400) x10^9/L. So I'm not bottom of range. I suspect he's looking at platelets but don't know. Most MDs don't fully understand TRT so my case was special because it's a wellness / anti-aging clinic. All the MDs are aware of whats going on and believe in the benefits of TRT. I believe my MDs only concern is polycemia (or however that is spelled lol) and he says I do not have that.... I believe him because if I cut myself it seems to take forever to coagulate. I wasn't like this before TRT.

Here are the ones that are over range. My MD says he see's this all the time on patients on TRT. I feel ok, he put me on Losartan because my BP was getting too high. Big improvement there.
HGB 190 (140-175) g/L
RBC 6.39 (4.5o-5.90) x10^12/L
HCT 0.582 (0.420-0.500)

I asked my MD about my slow coagulation when bleeding and he said most people my age go on blood thinners so the fact I have this issue is not a problem. It's all he said. I don't think they know why. To be honest. I ask all sorts of questions and there is a lot they don't fully understand.

Sorry this isn't more helpful but has your husband seen a TRT friendly hemotologist? If not perhaps this is your next step.

This is a contentious issue and becoming more common. Some MDs insist if hct is too high you must donate blood no matter what and other MDs say if your platelets are not high you don't have polycemia and are ok. Clearly there is more to this than we understand.

I'm starting to get the impression that HCG may be the contributor to high hct so I'm going to reduce that part of it and wait for some labs. When I was on testosterone alone I don't remember having high hct.
 

Vettester Chris

Super Moderator
Interestingly when my ferritin at 73 my FT3 goes down to 6. Get my ferritin upto 90 and my FT3 goes upto 7.5(top of range is 7) I'm in Canada so they do not do RT3 here. But with ferritin at 73 I feel very hypothyroid and I can get it to 90 but it doesn't stay there...when its at 90 I feel so much better. I guess I have to stop drinking tea and take more iron.

I never had any iron problems before TRT. I was on TRT for a few years without any iron problems then suddenly it's below range and hard to get back up. My TRT hasn't changed since the beginning. So until the age of 57 my ferritin was actually too high. Then it did the opposite and dropped to bottom of range. Would having the MTHFR mutation mean it's congenital? or do people get it later in life? I just assumed that mutation was congenital. I'll goggle it now.

MTHFR is congenital, but like a lot of things, it's effects can be more profound as we age. I am a carrier for Hemochromatosis, and things were fine with me until my late 30's, when I felt like I was starting to come apart!! Found out my ferritin was over 1,400, elevated iron as well > 350. This had been with me my whole life, but again it wasn't until the late 30's until everything kicked in, including a surrendered endocrine system!

Here's the kicker, I got everything under control with the Hemo issues by donating blood. However, similar to you, donating actually took it to the other end of the spectrum, and even with my genetic condition, I was seeing iron & ferritin starting to tank. Here's another kicker, to keep things in balance correctly (trial & error to dial in), I take 120mg of elemental slow release iron daily, with 2,000mg of Vitamin C, along with others (mag, D3,etc.). If I don't donate, all of my issues (naturally) will build up and I'll have problems. If I donate, but don't take the supplements, I will be in the tank on iron & ferritin for a period of time, and FT3 pools, T4 shifts to RT3, a la hypothyroidism.

At 73, your ferritin is still not high enough to work effectively with FT3 to the cells. If so, T4 conversion to T3-> FT3 is going to decrease, and a shift to RT3 will increase. FT3 serum levels will stay somewhat elevated, but it's not fully active and referred to as "pooling" when unable to get transported adequately.

I'm fully on board with Janie and STTM with men's ferritin levels being best when > 100, for me 100 - 150 is fine, in conjunction with Iron serum in the 130sh range. Optimal Lab Values-how we as patient learned to interpret lab results - Stop The Thyroid Madness

I would guess to say that at 90 on your ferritin, you're are just starting to get some of that "activity" happening, where T3 is starting to make headway to the cells, ATP synthesis, and that "much better feeling" you experience. The shift would then be made with T4 to convert at higher rates of T3 -> FT3, and in turn would decrease its rate of conversion to RT3 as your metabolic disposition improves.
 

ratbag

Member
Vettester Chris ,

This is a very small world indeed. I used to help Janie out years ago when she started her site. I'm on cytomel because being hypopituitary my conversion is limited at best. My wellness MD first started me on Cortisol when he saw my salivary labs from ZRT to be below range at all 4 points in the day. Then he found my FT3 was low so he started me on NDT. I forget the brand but not long after in Canada the version that was being sold in pharmacies didn't work any longer... no T3 in it. So my MD put me cytomel and wow what a difference. Suddenly my brain woke up.

My MD then started me on TRT and for some reason after this my FT4 tanked (like way under range). So he put me on 200mcg synthroid and I'm still on it. So I went for approx 2 years feeling like I was 16 again and then my iron tanked and I became hypothyroid again. So 2 years later here I am but we now know why. So TRT has tanked both my FT4 and ferritin. Some MDs thought my ferritin at 73 should have been fine and I didn't question that but I donated blood because I thought my hct was too high and found out that tanked my ferritin to 10.. so then I stared supping iron and got it to 90 and stopped for labs and it tanked again really fast. So yeah when there are iron issues it seems to be like a yoyo in getting it right.

I totally agree with ferritin of over 100. I was shooting for 120 but I can't get there. No more tea and perhaps I need to take more iron. What brand iron are you taking? I found that taking any iron increased my hypertension hence the Losartan. I don't follow why you are having to donate blood? is this because of high hct?
 

BuzzSaw

Member
You don't need to stop drinking tea, it's just that it can inhibit absorption of iron. Best to take iron a few hours before/after drinking tea. Other things can affect absorption is: coffee, chocolate, calcium (dairy). Prob missed a few others, but you can look it up.

I too am thinking of ditching TRT as my blood thickens, but donating blood screws up my iron levels. My rT3 is already elevated, so I'm basically screwed either way.

But I'm ditching HCG (makes me feel really weird, and more depressed), as Nelson mentioned that it can increase HCT/RBC levels. Will also decrease TRT from 150mg to 100mg per week (split 50mg E3.5). Hopefully it'll stop the blood getting too thick in the future, who knows?

Good luck.
 

ratbag

Member
You don't need to stop drinking tea, it's just that it can inhibit absorption of iron. Best to take iron a few hours before/after drinking tea. Other things can affect absorption is: coffee, chocolate, calcium (dairy). Prob missed a few others, but you can look it up.

I too am thinking of ditching TRT as my blood thickens, but donating blood screws up my iron levels. My rT3 is already elevated, so I'm basically screwed either way.

But I'm ditching HCG (makes me feel really weird, and more depressed), as Nelson mentioned that it can increase HCT/RBC levels. Will also decrease TRT from 150mg to 100mg per week (split 50mg E3.5). Hopefully it'll stop the blood getting too thick in the future, who knows?

Good luck.

BuzzSaw,

My TT was at 1050 and I lowered testosterone from 55mg E3D to 45mg E3D and my TT went to 711 and I feel quite good and I haven't lost any muscle. So I'm glad I tried that because I would have just stayed there at the higher dosage. Next I'm going to lower my HCG to 250iu E3D and see if I can get my hct, rbc, hgb in range. You know everytime I visit my regular MD (non TRT guy) he looks at my labs and sees the high hct, rbc, hgb and says that testosterone is gonna kill you. Of course I try to inform him that this is common with trt patients but this is the opinion they possess when they don't know anything about trt.. so in the off chance I can get my labs in range and still feel good I would be happier not being questioned every time a non trt MD looks at my file.
 

GreenMachineX

Well-Known Member
I'm in the same boat as everyone here, my ferritin was an 8 and hematocrit was 47 a month ago after donating once a month for a year with prescribed phlebotomy. I'm prescribed 160mg/week split in 2 injections but have dropped to 140mg per week and will probably drop to 100mg per week split in 2 shots. I've been taking Ferrochel iron twice a day for a month and had my follow up labs today. I'm concerned my hematocrit has climbed up again. A year ago it got to 57 with TRT at 160mg/week and HCG with b12 injection at 500iu twice a week (unsure of b12 amount in there).

What's everyone's low ferritin symptoms?
My heart pounds with exertion, I get dizzy when I eat and get occasional palpitations. It's nerve-wrecking.

Also, I was getting a little constipated so I skipped 1 day of iron and all of my symptoms returned and haven't gone away in 3 days yet. How is missing just a few doses of iron capable of screwing it all up again? Unless taking iron was only masking the symptoms and my ferritin is only marginally better...
 
You're just chasing your tail by cutting Cyp. Youre either on an effective dose of Cyp and deal with the ancillary issues or just get off HRT. This may be an indication that HRT is not for you. Im yet to see some one really address the iron or ferritin issue without aggravating the other factors, like HCT/HGB. Of the times I really tried to get my iron up, I saw it improve a bit thru testing and honestly I didn't feel any better, or worse, so I just dropped the iron supplementation.
 

Daeodon

New Member
Have you tested for the MTHFR mutation?

You are correct, without iron & ferritin, T3 isn't going to make it to the cells, or at least nowhere near enough of it. T3 serum will definitely go up on thyroid meds as you know, but then it just pools with no effective transport method to the cells. If taking a NDT or T4 levo medication, you will probably notice that there's also a shift to higher levels of Reverse T3 when all of this is taking place(?)

Hey Vettester this peaked my curiosity. (Im waiting for lab results to update my first thread I started a week ago and have been silently edusacing myself) My wife has the MTHFR double mutation (not the single that 1 in 4 have) which as you know makes her unable to efficiently metholate homocysteine and absorb folic acid. My question is why do you ask as it pertains to this threads topic? Thank you for helping educate me.
 

Vettester Chris

Super Moderator
Hey Vettester this peaked my curiosity. (Im waiting for lab results to update my first thread I started a week ago and have been silently edusacing myself) My wife has the MTHFR double mutation (not the single that 1 in 4 have) which as you know makes her unable to efficiently metholate homocysteine and absorb folic acid. My question is why do you ask as it pertains to this threads topic? Thank you for helping educate me.

Some of this was more directed towards Ratbag, and the mention of increased HCT at one point and trying to understand why it's happening. Could easily be attributed to TRT. However, had a poster awhile back with similar issues, with unexplained HCT at higher than normal,and also increase in iron serum, but low ferritin continued to be problematic. Again, just some correlation from posts I've read, articles and such, but I think most anyone I've seen on forums with any form of the MTHFR mutation were heterozygous, with 1 in 4 like yours (I think that's the correct definition?) There's many other markers and tests to qualify as you know, but his comments resonated with a few others, so at a glance it seemed worth making mention.

Sorry your wife is dealing with the double mutation form of this. I'm sure she has to be pretty methodical with her diet and supplement plan. I hear higher doses of Vitamin C can be quite beneficial with reducing and stabilizing oxidants? I'd enjoy hearing more in one of your threads with how you both discovered it, what were the key symptoms, did they progress, and what the different steps you both take to manage this? I'm sure hers is dealt with a bit differently than yours?
 

GreenMachineX

Well-Known Member
You're just chasing your tail by cutting Cyp. Youre either on an effective dose of Cyp and deal with the ancillary issues or just get off HRT. This may be an indication that HRT is not for you. Im yet to see some one really address the iron or ferritin issue without aggravating the other factors, like HCT/HGB. Of the times I really tried to get my iron up, I saw it improve a bit thru testing and honestly I didn't feel any better, or worse, so I just dropped the iron supplementation.
I'm pretty sure I could get away with 100-120mg per week and still feel a million times better than without TRT. Before TRT, my total T was around 150. So, I'm still going to cut the cyp a little at least until I get my ferritin and iron up and reassess from there. Iron supplementation is making a huge difference in how I feel though. I definitely need to try to find a balance that works for me. Life without TRT was a mess.

Is low ferritin and iron a dangerous place to be? My doctors don't seem all that concerned but that dizziness and those palpitations sure *feel* dangerous...
 

BuzzSaw

Member
Not sure the ideal minimum levels of ferritin you need (esp for the thyroid to function properly), but maybe look into other forms of iron? I use Gentle Iron caps (Bisglycinate). Try to take it with vit c, and avoid tea, coffee, calcium whilst taking it.
 

GreenMachineX

Well-Known Member
I'm already prescribed synthroid so thyroid function doesn't really matter in my case. I'm using the same type of iron as you, just by Thorne research instead. And to clarify, I was wrong about the iron clogging me up, it was garcinia coupled with a few days of not enough fiber. But, this form of iron and slow-fe both give me mild headaches.

Another question, I recently bought a bunch of mk-677 as my Igf-1 levels are low too and was planning to low dose it (5mg to start) before I was diagnosed iron deficient. I just want to ask if anyone has any thoughts as to if starting it up now might be a problem in any way during this low ferritin/iron deficient state. Thanks.
 

ratbag

Member
I'm already prescribed synthroid so thyroid function doesn't really matter in my case. I'm using the same type of iron as you, just by Thorne research instead. And to clarify, I was wrong about the iron clogging me up, it was garcinia coupled with a few days of not enough fiber. But, this form of iron and slow-fe both give me mild headaches.

Another question, I recently bought a bunch of mk-677 as my Igf-1 levels are low too and was planning to low dose it (5mg to start) before I was diagnosed iron deficient. I just want to ask if anyone has any thoughts as to if starting it up now might be a problem in any way during this low ferritin/iron deficient state. Thanks.

GreenMachineX,

the main symptom of low iron is hypothyroidism. It doesn't matter that you are taking thyroid meds. The thyroid mechanism doesn't allow your serum thyroid to enter your tissues or organs. You need to read more about this. If you have low iron your are definitively hypothyroid regardless of what thyroid meds you take. So look at the symptoms of low iron and hypothyroidism. You'll see a large overlap between the two. Constipation is listed for both.
 

GreenMachineX

Well-Known Member
Gotcha.
Well, my ferritin is up to 45 and my hemoglobin is 17.2 (top of range is 17.1) and hematocrit is 53.8 (top of range is 50). Seems like my ferritin is high enough but my blood is getting too thick again. I haven't actually heard from the doctor on what to do, but my plan is to drop the iron supplements and continue test cyp at 120mg per week in 2 injections. I see Losartan decreases hemoglobin and hematocrit but am wondering if telmisartan does as well?
I have telmisartan I could start up again, and being that my BP is elevated again, I may as well.
Anyone have any thoughts?
 

ratbag

Member
From what I've read, most who are on thyroid meds and TRT that have an iron deficiency need to get their ferritin somewhere between 100 to 150. I was upto 90 and was just starting to feel a little better (less hypo) and I had to stop for labs. By the time my labs were done 4 days later my ferritin dropped to 30 and I felt like crap just as fast. So when you read about good ferritin levels being 50-70 I believe they are referring to those who are not on thyroid meds or on TRT. That's my take on it. I've been lowering my Testosterone and HCG in the hopes I'll be able to get my ferritin above 100. My HCT is 58 but my hematologist says it ok. But I do not have thick blood or polycemia.
 
Gotcha.
Well, my ferritin is up to 45 and my hemoglobin is 17.2 (top of range is 17.1) and hematocrit is 53.8 (top of range is 50). Seems like my ferritin is high enough but my blood is getting too thick again. I haven't actually heard from the doctor on what to do, but my plan is to drop the iron supplements and continue test cyp at 120mg per week in 2 injections. I see Losartan decreases hemoglobin and hematocrit but am wondering if telmisartan does as well?
I have telmisartan I could start up again, and being that my BP is elevated again, I may as well.
Anyone have any thoughts?

That's what I thought the result would be.
 

ratbag

Member
Has anyone tried iron injections? My ferritin is in the tank and I've been taking over 100mg iron daily (bluebonnet chelated iron 27mg x4) and all that happens is my ferritin raises to 50 and stops there... meanwhile my HCT is 58 because of iron supps and my MD and hematologist is ok with that because I do not have polycemia. But because my iron is low I'm totally hypothyroid and am tired of all these symptoms.
 

GreenMachineX

Well-Known Member
Has anyone tried iron injections? My ferritin is in the tank and I've been taking over 100mg iron daily (bluebonnet chelated iron 27mg x4) and all that happens is my ferritin raises to 50 and stops there... meanwhile my HCT is 58 because of iron supps and my MD and hematologist is ok with that because I do not have polycemia. But because my iron is low I'm totally hypothyroid and am tired of all these symptoms.
My symptoms have improved dramatically after removing another supplement I was taking and I have ceased iron supplements. I've also been switched to Losartan 25mg and have a referral to a hematologist to get the okay like you have.

Are you trying Losartan or naringin?
 

ratbag

Member
What supplement did you remove? I take all sorts of supps. I'm on Losartan 25mg daily for 6 weeks now and I suspect taking over 100mg iron daily increased my BP and HCT which necessitated Losartan. I have to figure out what caused my ferritin to tank.
 
Buy Lab Tests Online

Sponsors

bodybuilder test discounted labs
Defy Medical TRT clinic
nelson vergel coaching for men
Discounted Labs
TRT in UK Balance my hormones
Testosterone books nelson vergel
Register on ExcelMale.com
Trimix HCG Offer Excelmale
Thumos USA men's mentoring and coaching
Testosterone TRT HRT Doctor Near Me
how to save your marriage

Online statistics

Members online
5
Guests online
8
Total visitors
13

Latest posts

Top