T Levels - Are the super stable levels of ED and EOD protocols desirable?

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S1W

Well-Known Member
I recall reading another forum member, I believe it was sh1973, mention that he thinks some variation in T levels is a key part of a good protocol for him and that the smooth, stable levels of ED and EOD injection protocols were counterproductive for him.

ED and EOD protocols are frequently touted as being better overall - reducing side effects and locking in extremely stable T levels, etc. Has anyone (regardless of SHBG) who has tried an ED or EOD injection protocol found that having super stable T levels with little to no variability was undesirable, and went back to fewer injections per week? Other thoughts on the subject?
 
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CoastWatcher

Moderator
I know that we have at least one member who found he did better on a NON-daily protocol. After four years of daily injections, I couldn't be happier - which again points to how each of us is a unique player in the TRT game.
 

Nashtide

Member
I recall reading another forum member, I believe it was sh1973, mention that he thinks some variation in T levels is a key part of a good protocol for him and that the smooth, stable levels of ED and EOD injection protocols were counterproductive for him.

ED and EOD protocols are frequently touted as being better overall - reducing side effects and locking in extremely stable T levels, etc. Has anyone (regardless of SHBG) who has tried an ED or EOD injection protocol found that having super stable T levels with little to no variability was undesirable, and went back to fewer injections per week? Other thoughts on the subject?
I absolutely believe that there should be some variation in hormone levels. That's the way it works in nature. I will arbitrarily change my dose of T cyp from 50mg to 40mg E3.5D for a couple of weeks. I also intentionally skip my hcg shot every now and then. I'm not advocating large changes, but I think it helps to keep the receptors guessing.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
I think the discipline of daily injections is the only main issue, at least before I started that was my main concern. Would it be too much of a pain to do it daily, so far it has worked out really good for me.
 

HealthMan

Member
I felt pretty much the same on daily vs E3.5D injections. However i noticed 2 things. On daily injections my HCT went through the roof despite lower FT levels. Also my estradiol lowered with daily injections. So for me it was better to stay on E3.5D.
 

S1W

Well-Known Member
I felt pretty much the same on daily vs E3.5D injections. However i noticed 2 things. On daily injections my HCT went through the roof despite lower FT levels. Also my estradiol lowered with daily injections. So for me it was better to stay on E3.5D.

When you switched to daily and had that experience, did you lower your weekly dose a bit from your E3.5D dose or did you maintain the same weekly dose?
 

Henry

Member
I think the variation does help. I've been running over 1300 for the past 3 years now and I've never had any issues with E2, HGB or HCT. My blood work is better now in my 40's than in my 20's and I think it's due to the daily variations that come with Androgel. My body isn't running a 1300 T level all day and all night as if I were on a daily T-cyph injection. I hit my peak of 1300 a couple of hours after I apply the gel and then I drop down to about 500-700 or so before my next application the next day. I get close to the natural rhythm of high early in the morning and lowering throughout the day and lowest while I sleep.
 

JPB

Member
Daily injection with a long ester will achieve steady state levels. Some individuals on daily protocols prefer propionate (short acting ester)
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
Daily injection with a long ester will achieve steady state levels. Some individuals on daily protocols prefer propionate (short acting ester)
I've discussed propionate with my doctor, but am so pleased with enanthate every morning I choose to stay the course.
 

madman

Super Moderator
Daily injection with a long ester will achieve steady state levels. Some individuals on daily protocols prefer propionate (short acting ester)


Any oil based esterified testosterone when injected daily will achieve steady state testosterone levels.....if anything the only benefit propionate has over enanthate/cypionate is propionate peaks around 14 hrs.

Some will claim daily prop injections most closely mimicks the natural (endogenous) 24 hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young males testosterone levels (which peak in the early am and than slowly decline in the late afternoon/evening) when in fact that is thrown out the window when one decides to use injectable esterified testosterone as steady state testosterone levels are achieved 24/7 albeit there are still fluctuations but in no way no how will injections ever achieve the natural ebb/flow of endogenous testosterone production in a healthy young male.

Patches or transdermal are the closest one could get!
 

Paco1973

Member
I'm on daily propionate injections now, and I feel pretty damn good. I get up in the morning and take my shot while the coffee is brewing. Two shots if it's my day to take HCG. I've been on enanthate, cypionate, and cream. This is the best protocol I've had, by far.
 

jacb

Active Member
I'm on daily propionate injections now, and I feel pretty damn good. I get up in the morning and take my shot while the coffee is brewing. Two shots if it's my day to take HCG. I've been on enanthate, cypionate, and cream. This is the best protocol I've had, by far.
I read on this web site https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?1487-Testosterone-Replacement-Treatment-Options
Some users also report that propionate is a more painful injection, with swelling and noticeable pain around the injection site”.

Have you had any problems in this respect?
 

Paco1973

Member
No problems at all. The daily injection is so small, only 0.1 ml, that I don't even feel it. I inject subcutaneously. I rotate sites around my abdomen, my delts, and my glutes. It's way less painful than the huge harpoons I was using when I was injecting cypionate.

So far, I'm feeling really great on the stuff. I started it at the beginning of the month, and each day gets a little bit better. Or, at least it feels that way.
 

BillyJ03z

Active Member
I read on this web site https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?1487-Testosterone-Replacement-Treatment-Options
Some users also report that propionate is a more painful injection, with swelling and noticeable pain around the injection site”.

Have you had any problems in this respect?

Yes, there is pain... not excruciating pain but more of a pouring alcohol on a cut pain... I have recently switched from Cyp EOD IM injects to Prop ED SubQ injects... I'm still playing around with the dosing as I am a low SHBG guy... I actually prefer daily SQ injects as opposed to any IM injects as it is so simple and quick and painless (the actual injection), the only problem I am having is that the prop does sting and irritate 75% of the time and leaves a little hard knot where I had injected for a few days... Im thinking about going to a 50/50 prop/cyp ed Sq injection protocol... I have been on a ed sq prop protocol for 2 months now and I get my prop from a local compounding pharmacy.. funny thing is that my first bottle of prop I had zero pain on injections, no irritations, no lumps and now on my second bottle of prop I have the irritation, stinging... I think whoever compounded my first bottle didn't make prop correctly with whatever the irritants prop usually contains, but I did get good results.. lmao
 
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