First "cycle" test results

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Gman86

Member
Interesting, I have not used Quest before so I can't respond to any changes they may have instituted, but 35-155 pg/ml is the reference given on the report. I do see from various sites a 47-244 pg/ml reference range, close to what you mentioned, so it looks like I am closer.
One of the same sites suggests a free T range of 9-30 ng/dl and as percentage of total T a range of 1.6-2.9%. This prompted me to do a quick calculation of my free T in ng/dl and I get 30.9, right at the top of the range, with a %free T which is about 2.3%, right in the ballpark. Hmmmm.....

Very impressive with the math skills! I thought I was the only one doing things like that. I’m constantly looking at my blood work and referance ranges and calculating percentages and things like that to make sense of it all. You’re a man after my own heart lol. But ya sounds like there’s definitely some validity to the numbers you came up with, and I wouldn’t be surprised if your free test level of 308.5 is right where you want it to be, and not as high as the referance range they gave you made it seem.
 

StuD

Member
The dose your Doctor put you on shows he has no experience with TRT whatsoever. No TRT specialist ever starts someone at 200mg/week. Most TRT specialists don't start using an AI either unless they know you need it. So he's struck out twice and your only 10 weeks out of the gate. I would keep running until you find a Doctor who knows what he's doing. Our Sponsor Defymedical.com works with many here on this forum and they can do it by telephone providing you can get them labs etc and the Doctors at Defy really know their stuff! The BS stops when you go to them and they are quite inexpensive to boot.

Really, no TRT specialist EVER starts someone at 200mg/week? I guess the references to this dosage that I have seen may not have been a starting point. Several others have mentioned that it was really strange to start the AI. I do understand your point, a lower dosage and I would not have had the increase I saw and would not be possibly faced with altering my dosage downward. Don't get me wrong, I do understand what I believe to be your pessimism and low opinion of my Doc, I meet him next week and will be asking some serious questions.
 

StuD

Member
Very impressive with the math skills! I thought I was the only one doing things like that. I'm constantly looking at my blood work and referance ranges and calculating percentages and things like that to make sense of it all. You're a man after my own heart lol. But ya sounds like there's definitely some validity to the numbers you came up with, and I wouldn't be surprised if your free test level of 308.5 is right where you want it to be, and not as high as the referance range they gave you made it seem.

All this does give me a broader view of the results, but I still have some serious questions for my Doc as I have been enlightened by hanging around here a bit.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
Really, no TRT specialist EVER starts someone at 200mg/week? I guess the references to this dosage that I have seen may not have been a starting point. Several others have mentioned that it was really strange to start the AI. I do understand your point, a lower dosage and I would not have had the increase I saw and would not be now possibly faced with altering my dosage downward. Don't get me wrong, I do understand what I believe to be your pessimism and low opinion of my Doc, I meet him next week and will be asking some serious questions.
Every doctor that I have dealt with/heard of who has happy and satisfied patients initiates therapy in a split-dosing protocol in which the total weekly dose does not exceed 150mg (unless there is an eye-poppingly high SHBG value in play). Is that a small sample size? It certainly is. Perhaps 18 doctors in Canada and the US, and one in the UK.

However, it's a matter of half-life, estradiol, and SHBG. Weighing those factors, there is a consensus that moderation, particularly at the start of therapy lends itself to greater success in the long run. It's "easier for the patient to climb higher rather than stumble down" (my own doctor's phrase).
 

StuD

Member
Every doctor that I have dealt with/heard of who has happy and satisfied patients initiates therapy in a split-dosing protocol in which the total weekly dose does not exceed 150mg (unless there is an eye-poppingly high SHBG value in play). Is that a small sample size? It certainly is. Perhaps 18 doctors in Canada and the US, and one in the UK.

However, it's a matter of half-life, estradiol, and SHBG. Weighing those factors, there is a consensus that moderation, particularly at the start of therapy lends itself to greater success in the long run. It's "easier for the patient to climb higher rather than stumble down" (my own doctor's phrase).

Thanks, I appreciate the level-headed response. Great quote. Perhaps, as I implied above, I won't have to stumble down quite as far as I thought, but I would have preferred to avoid it to begin with.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
Thanks, I appreciate the level-headed response. Great quote. Perhaps, as I implied above, I won't have to stumble down quite as far as I thought, but I would have preferred to avoid it to begin with.
You have every reason to believe that you'll find your footing. Really.
 

StuD

Member
Very impressive with the math skills! I thought I was the only one doing things like that. I'm constantly looking at my blood work and referance ranges and calculating percentages and things like that to make sense of it all. You're a man after my own heart lol. But ya sounds like there's definitely some validity to the numbers you came up with, and I wouldn't be surprised if your free test level of 308.5 is right where you want it to be, and not as high as the referance range they gave you made it seem.

;) Dimensional analysis is sort of a hobby of mine! You have to watch those units closely, though. I misspoke earlier when I said I had a 100 fold increase in free T, it was a 10 fold increase in ng/dl. :eek:
 

ratbag

Member
Don't confuse pessimism with reality. We regularly hear of non TRT MD's Rxing the standard 200mg dose every second week. This is actually the standard that we all know doesn't work. So when we hear what your Doc did we understand why 85% of men who go on TRT give it up in 6 months. Because all they ever experienced was the roller coaster effect. Excuse me for calling out your MD but a starting protocol as such is an obvious mistake.
 
Stud your trt dose is not a cycle dose and you are not supposed to feel like superman even on a cycle unless it's your first cycle and your dosages are quite high. you can continue with this dose if you want to but keep in mind muscle mass and strenght takes time to build you don't get it from hormones for free while doing nothing :) you need to hit that gym every other day with good balanced programm and diet and you will make great progress with this total and free T level it just takes time. the sign that your libido is up means everything is working the way it should be you probably just had unrealistic expectations.
 

StuD

Member
Don't confuse pessimism with reality. We regularly hear of non TRT MD's Rxing the standard 200mg dose every second week. This is actually the standard that we all know doesn't work. So when we hear what your Doc did we understand why 85% of men who go on TRT give it up in 6 months. Because all they ever experienced was the roller coaster effect. Excuse me for calling out your MD but a starting protocol as such is an obvious mistake.

Are you referring to MY starting protocol? It wasn't the "standard" 200mg every second week, but 200mg per week with 2 injections 3.5 days apart with .5 mg AI once per week. Not defending the protocol as I now see potential problems with this approach as many have pointed out.
 

StuD

Member
Stud your trt dose is not a cycle dose and you are not supposed to feel like superman even on a cycle unless it's your first cycle and your dosages are quite high. you can continue with this dose if you want to but keep in mind muscle mass and strenght takes time to build you don't get it from hormones for free while doing nothing :) you need to hit that gym every other day with good balanced programm and diet and you will make great progress with this total and free T level it just takes time. the sign that your libido is up means everything is working the way it should be you probably just had unrealistic expectations.

My expectations were indeed unrealistic and probably jaded by my brother's experience and that of a few others I've personally spoken with....they seem to get more of a kick out of TRT than I have. I've done intense exercise all my life, in the last 5-6 years the returns on the investment have gone downhill.... I hope you're right and time will tell.
 
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