1. #1

    Anyone switch from Clomid to HCG?

    I am a 50yo. Started seeking treatment about 18 months for Low T symptoms. Initial rounds of blood work showed borderline Low-T around 320-350. Doctor put me on 50mg Clomid monotherapy 3xWeek. Then took about 6 months of wild fluctuations of Estrogen, Thyroid levels (I am hypothyroid), and related levels to get under control. Clomid has some known negative Thyroid effects. Added a dose of AI 3xWeek and now Estrogen levels in good range and Thyroid has stabilized. Net result was my testosterone levels now consistently around 770. I feel better, but not "great". Libido is better, but not great. Overall mood is a much better on most days. Just don't have the energy and drive I expected if my T levels came up. Doctor suggested I now switch to HCG monotherapy of 250IU 6 of 7 days per week for possible better results related to energy, weight loss, libido, etc.

    Question: Has anyone experienced using both Clomid and HCG monotherapy at different times? If so, be interested in your experiences and your personal comparison of both therapies.

    Feel like I am crazy switching off something that is "working" to an unknown. But I guess if the HCG produces worse results over next 8 weeks, I can always switch back.

    Thanks
    Last edited by MikePA; 07-13-2018 at 12:18 PM.

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  3. #2
    It doesn't sound like TRT is in your doctors toolbox, clomid for a 50 year old who is expected to have androgen deficiency is odd. The success rate of Clomid after 30 years old, well let's just say the math is not on your side at all.

    Same odds with HCG monotherapy, very poor.

  4. #3
    SHBG is probably high and Free T low but need your labs to have any kind of meaningful discussion. An increase is TT is a tiny part of the puzzle.

  5. #4
    Super Moderator Vettester Chris's Avatar
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    In similar fashion with Systemlord, this doesn't sound statistically favorable for someone who is 50yo.

    Your objective makes sense, you want to increase your testosterone serum & free/bio test to an optimal level for sustained wellness (I'm 51, I desire the same thing LOL) ... Then, why not just administer testosterone cypionate and be done with it? IMO Clomid as a SERM is a decent route to restart the HPTA, which is popular with younger men that are shutdown, but even then it's a temporary treatment protocol.

    Depending on the Leydig cells, HCG Solo may work, it may not work, and ultimately if it does work then you will have increased testosterone serum ... Or, you could just administer Testosterone Cypionate and have increased testosterone serum levels. Or for many here including myself, a moderate amount of cypionate in conjunction with a smaller amount of HCG covers the best of both worlds (endogenous & exogenous).
    Please, no PM's posting lab results ... Let's Keep them on the Open Forum for Everyone to Comment. Feel free to PM me a link to your thread if you would like me to comment. Thanks!!


    I am not a Doctor, I only play one on T.V. Please consult your physician, or a trained-licensed physician before proceeding with any comments or suggestions posted on this or any forum.


  6. #5
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    Thanks for the initial feedback. My doctor is not opposed to TRT, but initially gave me the option to try solo Clomid (or HCG) option to see if my body can produce itself. In general, the Clomid has raised my TT levels, but here are some recent labs which clearly indicate an elevated SHBG now while on Clomid.

    June 2017 (Initial test, pre-clomid therapy)
    TT 378 Range 348-1197 ng/dL
    SHBG 36.0 Range 16.5-55.9 nmol/L
    Estradiol 19.5 Range 8.0-35.0 pg/mL
    (sensitive)

    Sep 2017 (after 3mo Clomid therapy)
    TT 779 Range 264-916 ng/dL
    Estradiol 32.1 Range 8.0-35.0 pg/mL
    (Sensitve)

    January 2018
    TT 750 Range 264-916 ng/dL
    SHBG 61.0 Range 16.5-55.9 nmol/L
    Estradiol 35.2 Range 8.0-35.0 pg/mL
    (Sensitive)
    Free T - not tested

    June 2018
    TT 716.5 Range 249.0-836.0 ng/dL
    FreeT 92.4 Range 50.0-210.0 pg/mL
    SHBG 70.8 Range 16.5-55.9 nmol/L
    Estradiol <25.0 Range 11.3-43.2 pg/mL

    I appreciate the input that Clomid is better suited to a younger guy looking for a restart. Clomid definitely raises SHBG and my labs clearly indicate too high. As mentioned, I am scheduled to start the HCG monotherapy this week for 8-10 weeks, then labs and doctor appt.

    At that point, if not where I want to be, agree that the option to go on TRT (+HCG) is the plan.

    Thanks

  7. #6
    You show remarkable patience - a real virtue when playing this game. It's particularly in short supply when men turn to Clomid and HCG. I wish you the best...
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

  8. #7
    I don't see why guys would want to bother with clomiphene or HCG monotherapy if fertility is not a concern, or unless their doctor gave them no other choice. But then again I'm probably biased since clomiphene was such a failure for me.

    I guess it's about making a risk vs reward judgement on switching... I mean if you feel good on clomiphene now, but you're switching to try to feel better although you might end up feeling worse... hard to say, kind of a personal decision. Although you'll have to switch at some point, the clomiphene won't work forever as you age. Tough call

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk001 View Post
    I don't see why guys would want to bother with clomiphene or HCG monotherapy if fertility is not a concern, or unless their doctor gave them no other choice. But then again I'm probably biased since clomiphene was such a failure for me.

    I guess it's about making a risk vs reward judgement on switching... I mean if you feel good on clomiphene now, but you're switching to try to feel better although you might end up feeling worse... hard to say, kind of a personal decision. Although you'll have to switch at some point, the clomiphene won't work forever as you age. Tough call
    You raise points that are hard to refute. In the practice where I am a member, the Clomid success rate - I have been told - is very low. In part, that's attributable to the fact that many guys simply get fed up and ask to switch to a standard TRT protocol. But we do have members here at EM who succeed...
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

  10. #9
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    Have to say I agree with all the comments, especially that Clomid and HCG mono are not really a long-term strategy as I will eventually need to start TRT anyway. I appreciate the input. Sounds like the consensus is to go on TRT (now) rather than messing around with Clomid/HCG mono and hoping for the best result.
    Last edited by MikePA; 07-14-2018 at 05:10 PM.

  11. #10
    Super Moderator Vettester Chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikePA View Post
    Have to say I agree with all the comments, especially that Clomid and HCG mono are not really a long-term strategy as I will eventually need to start TRT anyway. I appreciate the input. Sounds like the consensus is to go on TRT (now) rather than messing around with Clomid/HCG mono and hoping for the best result.
    Exactly! Your goal is to optimize your testosterone, so no better way at 50yo than to just get the real deal and there's no guessing. Even with HCG Mono, you are on a multi-injection program every week, so IMO I'd rather just get on a program that ensures me the best results.
    Please, no PM's posting lab results ... Let's Keep them on the Open Forum for Everyone to Comment. Feel free to PM me a link to your thread if you would like me to comment. Thanks!!


    I am not a Doctor, I only play one on T.V. Please consult your physician, or a trained-licensed physician before proceeding with any comments or suggestions posted on this or any forum.


  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vettester Chris View Post
    Exactly! Your goal is to optimize your testosterone, so no better way at 50yo than to just get the real deal and there's no guessing. Even with HCG Mono, you are on a multi-injection program every week, so IMO I'd rather just get on a program that ensures me the best results.
    On the mark.
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

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