I really need some feedback here boys (bad TRT experience, rapidly getting even worse)

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banshek7

New Member
So to give you the basic information fast, I started trt around a year ago at 100mg per week. My E2 quickly went up and the physicians assistant refused to help me because it was outside of his realm of experience, in fact I had to force him to test my E2 as he believed the shots were unable to convert to estradiol. The elevated level was 66pg/ml, 1 month ago I tested at 99pg/ml and my breast are burning, I can hardly walk around and I feel bad, really bad.

2 weeks ago I switched to the gel due to an allergic reaction to the shot, and things are even worse, my nipples are burning, the fatigue has increased, everything is worse.

Today I finally got to see the endocrinologist they sent me to and it was one of the most mortifying experiences of my life, she yelled at me and my mother for an entire hour, said 170-200ng/dl total T was no reason to start TRT, told me that 100mg per week was some kind of physiological lethal dose of medicine and there is no way she is giving me an aromatase inhibitor because it will rapidly give me osteoporosis and lead to a chain of events that will inevitably lead to my death.

She also said there is no way that the super high estradiol is A.) making me fat B.) giving me fatigue or C.) making me retain fluid and that all of my symptoms were basically from me being mentally insane and that I should seek out mental medicine

She also told me that if she takes away the testosterone, my estrogen will rapidly decrease, when I've heard the exact opposite from every other source I've looked at, if that is true, why do men NEED aromatase inhibitors when they go off cycle? She said there is no biological way that stopping testosterone will raise my estrogen and that I basically need to man up and wait 3-4 years for my testicles to "maybe" start functioning.

I'm very manic and wrote this to the health clinic I go to, can anyone give me advice, I feel like I'm heading towards a nervous meltdown.



"[FONT=&quot]I just got back from that endocrinologist and I'm in a complete mania spell from that experience. I'm not mad or upset with her, she said a lot of valid things and a lot of things I don't agree with. You both are telling me two completely different things, and to make matters worse, neither one of you are aligned with the standard of care for TRT that the entire rest of the country follows. You cannot find me a hormone clinic that gives testosterone without an aromatase inhibitor, or at least checks within two weeks the E2 value and then gives the inhibitor. You told me to my face this therapy was medically necessary, and legally fought with my insurance company proving this was medically necessary, and shes telling me you had me on some kind of physiologically lethal dose at 100mg per week and I shouldn't even be on testosterone at all. I literally do not know what to think right now, she told me to continue taking the gel for 2 months, then she wants to retest my values and if they are still elevated, take me off of TRT with no reboot protocol and no aromatase inhibitor. Every doctor I have ever talked to, every patient, every person in this world that has taken either testosterone or steroids knows that if you suddenly stop taking them, your estrogen is going to go through the roof, mind you, you guys have me at 5x the normal level of estradiol this entire year. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Can you even begin to explain to me how every single hormone clinic gives an AI with treatment, and both of you are telling me this is impossible. If you want, I would be more than happy to link you to several hundred medical examples. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Also, she's telling me the 100mg per week shot was an extremely high dose, I can find hundreds of doctors and 1000's of patients that I'm connected to, famous doctors that run forums and have books out, that the standard TRT dose IS 100mg - 200mg, most of the time taken along side HCG injections and an aromatase inhibitor. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I'm not against everything she said, right now I'm am more extremely upset because you guys are putting me in a position of harm. If you take of me off the the therapy with no protocol in place to safe guard me, I will get a lawyer and have my friend, the CEO of a large health clinic and many others testify as to how wrong this all is. If neither of you know how harmful a man being at 100pg/ml of E2 is, I suggest you pick up some books and get reading. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"High estrogen levels in men contribute to prostate cancer and heart disease as well as gynecomastia ( enlarged breasts)." [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]My breast have been burning for an entire year now."
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

I apologize for the rant, I just really feel scared about my future right now and I can't turn to my doctors for help because they just shut me up, tell me I'm wrong about everything and don't listen to me.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
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Blackhawk

Member
I would have walked out on that Endo and flatly stated, You are not qualified to manage hormone therapy. You're fired.

Go with Defy.
 

banshek7

New Member
Thanks, I mean they make me feel mentally insane, I read everything on this site, I study hard, I read NIH case studies up to my eyes, I look everywhere for extremely accurate information and then when I talk to my doctors, they tell me everything I learned is a lie, I'm wrong, I'm fine, they are doing nothing wrong. Its like psychological gas-lighting that is so god damn intense that I actually start to believe im wrong, but I know I'm not.

The endo literally yelled at me and my mom for a fking hour, so intensely that my mother broke down crying. The endocrinologist kept saying "im doing this to myself" "I'm killing myself" wtf do you mean lady, these doctors (IN YOUR MEDICAL GROUP) put me on the TRT, I didn't hold them hostage and demand testosterone, and the other thing is she kept saying 100mg per week is like some lethal dose and I'm dying because my free testosterone is higher than a normal man. It was really an unreal experience, I still feel super fked up from the whole thing.
 

banshek7

New Member
Doesn't it rapidly increase before it drops though? I mean from everything in the known world that I've seen, men that stop taking testosterone and steroids need PCT because they will immediately get gyno and high E2 from the T shooting down, forcing the E2 up.
 
^thats false
when your testosterone is low your estrogen levels are low as well.. when you stop using steroids and go off testosterone cold turkey you just feel shitty because of lack of androgens and maybe some desentization to testosterone for some time (less sensitive). but your e2 doesnt go high its rumors from steroids boards
 

banshek7

New Member
I've visually seen people get gyno, I've also had super high E2 levels after stopping steroids in 2012. I appreciate your responses but do you have some kind of medical paper I can look at to verify what you are saying, its in contradiction to everything I've ever heard.
 
banshek what advice are you looking for? You need to find a new doctor and start over. Your story is pretty typical with medical insurance doctors.
Most of us go to private clinics and pay out of pocket.
 

buggies100

New Member
As stated above, drop both of them and go to defy medical. It may take a few weeks to get in, but go there.
Do you have anyblabs from before starting trt? Why did you start in the first place? Who diagnosed that?
 

banshek7

New Member
The P.A diagnosed, I had to have 2 morning Total T levels for my insurance to even accept me as medically needing the prescription. I've already preemptively downloaded all of my records. Someone in their google reviews said once he was released from the practice, they deleted his records. Lowest level was 170ng/dl, around there anyways.

(I've sent a message to Defy, thank you two for the advice, I live in New York, I don't understand how they could help me and I stated that in the message to them)
 
I've visually seen people get gyno, I've also had super high E2 levels after stopping steroids in 2012. I appreciate your responses but do you have some kind of medical paper I can look at to verify what you are saying, its in contradiction to everything I've ever heard.
primary source of e2 in males in conversion of testosterone and dhea to e2 with help of aromatase enzyme.. I posted a thread about e2 with bunch of studies where it was stated gynocomastia in men doesn't happen because of elevated estradiol but because of androgen resistance which is food for thought thats all.. I would wait for your e2 to naturally come down and stay away from testosterone because it might keep it high in your situation (too much conversion). there may be a reason for that high e2 conversion in your case. but if you want to take arimidex go ahead and take it but don't cry that you got osteoporosis and total loss of libido afterwards
 

banshek7

New Member
Well thanks, I'm not an ignorant person, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I looked up NIH papers that validated somewhat of what you are saying. I am going to wait to hear from defy, and I am also preparing myself mentally in case I need to cold turkey quit the testosterone. I really doubt arimidex could tank my e2 at .5mg 2x a week, I'm like a giant estrogen balloon right now, in fact, I would rather be at 0pg than where I am now, i'm that pissed off that I've had so much estrogen for the last year. Af far as "losing libido" thats some sad hilarious joke, I have no libido, I feel like a dead person, and I can hardly walk, I could shoot myself in the head and be healthier than I am now.

I'm going to have to meditate on what to do. This is all a bunch of bullshit, and every person and doctor tells me a completely different story about how TRT works.
 

user_joe

Member
**** her. Seriously, she shouldn't be in medicine spewing that kind of ignorance. Priority one for you is finding a GOOD doctor. It all gets better from there.
 

banshek7

New Member
Thanks man, that's really all I wanted to hear, some kind of validation that I'm not crazy. I feel like super backed into a corner over here.


Endo: "They have you on 100mg per WEEK??"
Me: "yes"
Endo: "Omg, you are killing yourself, why are you doing this"
Me: "Wut" :confused:
 
100mg is low trt dose (60-100mg thats low end trt dose lets be honest) so yeah your endo sounds very ignorant. these endos typically prescribe 200mg every 14 days lol
but man i would advice you to be really carefull with arimidex it can be very dangerous if used incorectly I overdosed on it few years ago and got a lot of very long lasting side effects which i still dealt with even now (and it's way worse than low testosterone)
 

user_joe

Member
Thanks man, that's really all I wanted to hear, some kind of validation that I'm not crazy. I feel like super backed into a corner over here.


Endo: "They have you on 100mg per WEEK??"
Me: "yes"
Endo: "Omg, you are killing yourself, why are you doing this"
Me: "Wut" :confused:

its the truth. Read the stickies on here. Read some of the books recommended. Get educated. Most docs aren't. It's s long term investment.
 

banshek7

New Member
100mg is low trt dose (60-100mg thats low end trt dose lets be honest) so yeah your endo sounds very ignorant. these endos typically prescribe 200mg every 14 days lol
but man i would advice you to be really carefull with arimidex it can be very dangerous if used incorectly I overdosed on it few years ago and got a lot of very long lasting side effects which i still dealt with even now (and it's way worse than low testosterone)

I appreciate the heads up man, I've made up my mind, I'm either going to go with defy, and if for some reason they can't help me, I'm cold turkying this week. I would literally rather have 0ng/dl of T than go through this bullshit for one more fking day of my life. I'm never taking that arimidex, if for some reason my body can't stabilize after a week or two to the point were I can tolerate being alive, I might seek out clomid and look up reboot protocols, but I'm hoping I don't have to play operation on myself like that. Thanks for the replies, I feel a lot more confident about what I must do now.
 
I've made up my mind, I'm either going to go with defy, and if for some reason they can't help me, I'm cold turkying this week. snip...

Joining Defy is not an over night thing. You'll have a huge packet of medical history papers to fillout and send in. You need a current medical exam from your PCP or any local grocery store clinic and a big blood test that usually takes 10 day to get back because E2 sens takes forever. Then you can schudule your first phone consult which is usually 3 week out. So like i said this ain't happening overnight.
 

Ardoc

Member
Banshek7 as you're all too aware, all of this horrible care you have been getting has your mind swirling and has you at your wits end but its important that you understand things will improve with the proper care. And as stated above it could take a bit of time. There are many stories on here about people who suffered the "care" they received from PCP's and Endo's with no knowledge of TRT and almost quit completely but who are now very happy with their results and the steps they took to try it one more time with a qualified provider. Good luck and hang in there!
 

banshek7

New Member
Thanks I appreciate that. Its hard times but all you can do is keeping pushing forward uphill. Before TRT I could bike up to 20 miles on my mountain bike, now its tiring to just walk around my house. I feel super emasculated in the sense that I'm weak. Very strange you said "wit's end" those were my exact words on facebook yesterday.
 
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