Commitment for life.

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James827

New Member
Hi all.
I’m a 36 year old male. I train most days, sometimes twice, my diet is good.
I’ve been on testosterone for a year or so. Not a huge amount. 200-250mg p/w.
I love the feeling TRT brings. My attitude towards life is positive. My training is on point. Recovery is good. Great energy.
I will commit to TRT for life at some point. My question is, would 36 years old be too early? I didn’t have any HPTA issues during my life. However I know my levels will naturally decline and I’m of a mindset that why wouldn’t I want to feel like a lion now and forever rather than gradually struggle more and more with training, concentration etc?
I’ve read a lot about Testosterone and it’s associated hormones etc.
It seem clear as day to me that the pro’s massively outway the cons.
My (small) concerns are with FSH/LH being non existent and how this would effect me adversely long term?
I’m also of a mindset that most things in life have a good and bad side. Would I be more likely to become ill through the amount of pollution in the air, long working hours etc? Are the dangers of TRT negligible along with all of the other adversaries in life?
So is 36 too young?
 
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Kirk001

Member
You say you never had any HPTA issues, so why have you been on test for a year? Kind of a mild cycle for gym benefits I guess? That's not really what TRT is about, and that dosage you've been taking is pretty high for TRT. Anyhow you may not have had issues when you started but after a year of 200-250mg test weekly, unless you've also been taking HCG, you're gonna have some issues now in that your endogenous production is probably shut down. Also your sperm count is probably nil at this point (again unless you've been taking HCG as well).

Sounds like you need to decide to either: A) come off treatment altogether, or B) transition to an HRT/TRT regimen that is sustainable over the long term. Either way you need to consult with a doctor who is knowledgeable in this area. For the first option you probably will need to try a restart with clomiphene and/or HCG to see what kind of endogenous production you can get going again. For the second option, you probably need to bring down the test dosage and possibly add HCG or possibly try clomiphene if fertility is a concern for you.

Either way you need full blood work labs and have to look at all the variables involved (not just T levels) to work with an experienced doc to get yourself set up on a path that is sustainable over the long term.
 

James827

New Member
Thank you for the response Kirk.

Gym/training benefits to start, however its become more about looking well, feeling great, attacking life.

I have used HCG. I don’t plan on having anymore children.

May I ask, are you taking Test, how old was you when you started?
 

James827

New Member
In addition, I know it was a little too high for TRT. By Scally’s estimation I would probably be sitting at 2000ng/dl.

But it’s a great feeling, the benefits seem huge, and compared to some things you could be putting in your system it seem like if it’s taken correctly the you can feel great forever.

I’m being greedy, I want to be a superhero for the rest of my days!

Is it a case that all would be taking it past 35? And nobody is willing to say it?

Or am I playing with fire?
 

Blackhawk

Member
So you chose Testosterone replacement despite having normal production and levels at age 36? To me that alone is not wise. Your choices definitely don;t correlate with my own sensibilities, but to each their own.

I did not start until trying everything else with very low levels and pretty desperate symptoms. I wish I had known earlier on that TRT would help me, but wasn't the least concerned about it until my mid 50's

What kind of labs/monitoring are you having done during your treatment? 200-250/week is likely to increase hematocrit and hemoglobin, and potentially estrogen. I'd be surprised if you don't end up with problems at some point at that kind of dosage
 
In addition, I know it was a little too high for TRT. By Scally’s estimation I would probably be sitting at 2000ng/dl.

But it’s a great feeling, the benefits seem huge, and compared to some things you could be putting in your system it seem like if it’s taken correctly the you can feel great forever.

I’m being greedy, I want to be a superhero for the rest of my days!

Is it a case that all would be taking it past 35? And nobody is willing to say it?

Or am I playing with fire?

Hi James welcome. So I got to ask how are you dealing with controlling your E2 prolactin and HCT running 2000ng/dL 24/7/365?
You have to be monitoring them often and doing what it takes to keep them under control, right?

In a side note I was about your age when my natural T lvl started coming down. I was thrilled.
For once in my life my little head no longer controlled my big head.

If all you think about is screwing and moving weights your career will suffer. When my big head finely got control of my life the career took off
I made enough money to retire at 50 with home and autos paid off no bills no debt. Just something to think about.
 

James827

New Member
It’s not about screwing and moving weights.

It’s about positivity, confidence, body composition, mood, concentration, decision making etc etc.

With regards to my career, I’m a Tier 1 soldier. Achieved along with moving weights and screwing.

I think I’ve opened up a can of worms here. I just wanted to find out what are the dangers of staying on for life, are they big or small?
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
It’s not about screwing and moving weights.

It’s about positivity, confidence, body composition, mood, concentration, decision making etc etc.

With regards to my career, I’m a Tier 1 soldier. Achieved along with moving weights and screwing.

I think I’ve opened up a can of worms here. I just wanted to find out what are the dangers of staying on for life, are they big or small?


Are you or aren't you monitoring blood tests?

Who knows for sure what risks you are taking when flying blind? Maybe you will slam into a mountain, maybe you are just fine.
 

Blackhawk

Member
It's not about screwing and moving weights.

It's about positivity, confidence, body composition, mood, concentration, decision making etc etc.

With regards to my career, I'm a Tier 1 soldier. Achieved along with moving weights and screwing.

I think I've opened up a can of worms here. I just wanted to find out what are the dangers of staying on for life, are they big or small?


Yes, running levels that high can be problematic for the long term, and can be a big deal for some. Yes, that is a can of worms.

Maybe you'll just be lucky and it works out for the long haul. Maybe not.

positivity, confidence, body composition, mood, concentration, decision making etc etc. can all be fine at lower dosage level without complications that go with higher long term dosing. We are pretty much all seeking similar results.

 
It's not about screwing and moving weights.

It's about positivity, confidence, body composition, mood, concentration, decision making etc etc.

With regards to my career, I'm a Tier 1 soldier. Achieved along with moving weights and screwing.

I think I've opened up a can of worms here. I just wanted to find out what are the dangers of staying on for life, are they big or small?

Sorry James you did not open up a can of worms. We are just being honest and frank here don't take it personnel. The guys on this forum really do want to help.
You are running a blast/cruse T lvl which is not safe in the long run. Are you controlling your E2, prolactin and HCT?
If not you could have a heart attack from blood so thick your heart can't move it thru your veins. How do your tits feel are they itchy leaking water? What about your temper, is it shorter than normal? Are you having any oilyskin issues or acne on your back?
 

James827

New Member
I don’t have any oily skin, acne, itchy nipples or temper. In fact I look better, more vibrant and very chilled out.

I really do not feel like it puts any stress on the system. Obviously I’m aware that I cannot see what is happening inside.
 

madman

Super Moderator
I don't have any oily skin, acne, itchy nipples or temper. In fact I look better, more vibrant and very chilled out.

I really do not feel like it puts any stress on the system. Obviously I'm aware that I cannot see what is happening inside.



Full blood work is needed especially hemoglobin/hematocrit and running those doses I would not be shocked too see that your testosterone levels are well over the physiological range as in supra-physiological.

If your sole purpose is to seek improvements in muscle/strength and recovery so be it but do understand that 200+mg/week are not needed for trt and even though 200mg/week is high and not a common trt dose as it would put most mens testosterone levels well beyond the physiological range.....250mg/week is a mild steroid cycle.

If you have been using 250mg/week for a long time than your are on a low dose cycle not trt!

Did you even hall full blood work done pre self treatment as you state you did not have any HPTA issues prior.....so why would you even start unless building muscle was your goal?

If your testosterone levels were healthy before you now have caused yourself hpta shutdown and yes you should be able to recover endogenous t production if you choose to stop but no one can say for sure that it will as age/dosage of testosterone/length of use as well as ones genetics will all be factors in how fast and even if ones hpta fully recovers.

The longer one uses or abuses testosterone/AAS the less chance one may recover!
 

James827

New Member
Yes, building muscle and training was the original goal. However with more research and reading that has changed.

Okay. Forget the term TRT.

Testosterone.

It seems like this hormone is a no-brainier. As I read more and more, I see how there are far too many pros compared to cons.

At the age of 36, having played with cycles for 7 years, enjoying still training twice a day and being top of my game, I am thinking of going on a low dose for life.

My levels will be naturally in a decline anyway. I am passionate about training and I love how the Test makes me recover.

But as my research goes on I’m seeing that this is a thing of the future that many will be taking for enhancement reasons, in all fields.

Not looking for a diagnosis, just gauging opinion rather than discussing it with myself.

And I acknowledge bloods need to be done. I’m on it.

I’m also a big belieber in symptoms and self feeling/diagnosis. For instance I monitor my blood pressure most days.
 

James827

New Member
I’m also trying to say is a low dose of testosterone any worse for you than a bottle of wine at the weekend, a cigar on a Saturday night, a chocolate cake after Sunday dinner?

Does anyone understand what I’m getting at?
 

madman

Super Moderator
I'm also trying to say is a low dose of testosterone any worse for you than a bottle of wine at the weekend, a cigar on a Saturday night, a chocolate cake after Sunday dinner?

Does anyone understand what I'm getting at?

200+mg is not a low dose and the purpose of trt is to relieve/improve symptoms of low t and whether that requires one to have their testosterone levels (total t/free t) in the mid-normal physiological range or high-normal physiological range to attain benefits regarding symptoms.

100mg/week is a common starting trt dose and the majority of men can attain mid-normal physiological testosterone levels on that dose and there are others who can attain high-normal physiological levels on that dose where as there are many other men who need higher doses of testosterone usually in the range of 100-150 mg/week to achieve high-normal physiological levels.

Trying to attain levels beyond the physiological range as in supra-physiological are in no way needed to experience relief of low t symptoms and the only true benefit would be enhancements in muscle growth/strength and recovery.

If one feels they need levels that high to experience relief from low t symptoms than they are mislead and I would say that they have a dysfunctional thyroid/adrenals or some other underlying health issue that is the problem.

Everyone responds differently to testosterone/dose as intra-individual variability plays a big role and ones sensitivity of the AR (androgen receptor), shbg levels, polymorphism of the AR and CAG repeat length (whether short or long) and body chemistry will come into play.

Trt should not be pursued strictly just to enhance ones muscle/strength/recovery or athleticism if they are not truly experiencing any low t symptoms.

Even than sure when one is on trt and has healthy testosterone levels in the physiological range of what the body would naturally produce endogenously there will be improvements in muscle/strength and recovery but it is in no way comparable to the significant gains in muscle/strength and enhanced recovery some one would achieve using or abusing testosterone/AAS using high doses of testosterone to attain supra-physiological testosterone levels.

To truly benefit from solely bodybuilding purposes high doses of testosterone would be needed (400-600mg/week) and even than if some one has good genetics and has their diet/training on point than they could grow very well from a lower dose such as 250mg/week which would be considered a mild steroid cycle dose.

Understand that most men injecting 200mg/week would easily achieve testosterone levels around 1600-1800 ng/dl well into the supra-physiological range and in no way needed for trt benefits.

Most cycling or blasting/cruising using higher doses using (400-600mg/week) would have levels 4-6 times greater than the average trt dose and testosterone levels could be anywhere from 3000-5000+ ng/dl.....basically insanely high levels.

To each his own and if one chooses to use testosterone in high doses so be it.....I have no issue with that but 200+mg/week is in no way needed to experience relief/improvements of low t symptoms!
 

madman

Super Moderator
I'm also trying to say is a low dose of testosterone any worse for you than a bottle of wine at the weekend, a cigar on a Saturday night, a chocolate cake after Sunday dinner?

Does anyone understand what I'm getting at?

It is simplistic thinking to compare a hormone with a bottle of wine, cigar or chocolate cake!
 

James827

New Member
I’m really trying to get away from this AAS/bodybuilding line of conversation.

With regards to the (simplistic thinking) comparison, I’m obviously not articulating my point well. I’ll leave it there.

Thanks for the input guys.
 

madman

Super Moderator
I'm really trying to get away from this AAS/bodybuilding line of conversation.

With regards to the (simplistic thinking) comparison, I'm obviously not articulating my point well. I'll leave it there.

Thanks for the input guys.


I understand that but in your thread/posts it is revolving around your positive effects of testosterone regarding building muscle/training/recovery.....enhancement reasons.

Getting to the point it is highly unlikely long term use of doses in the 200-250mg/week range would result in any long term health issues and if anything the main issues would be increased hemoglobin/hematocrit (mind you many can end up with low iron) which can be managed with blood donations, increased e2 which can be managed with aromatase inhibitors and a negative effect on ones lipid (lowering of hdl cholesterol) as there are studies showing that 200mg/week of testosterone can negatively effect lipids.

Also there are the chance of increased cosmetic side effects such as acne/oily skin, increased body/facial hair growth, accelerated MPB (male pattern baldness (in genetically susceptible individuals), water retention/bloating, high blood pressure, gynecomastia (in genetically prone individuals).

Cosmetic side effects come down to ones genetics and how they react to testosterone and its metabolites e2/dht.

As we know e2/dht are needed by the body and serve a beneficial purpose but excess or lack of these metabolites can result in negative issues/side effect.

Dose of testosterone and ones genetics/sensitivity of the AR will dictate whether one experiences negative side effects when using testosterone.
 
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madman

Super Moderator
If anything the main long term issue would be using higher doses of testosterone and one having testosterone levels well into the supra-physiological range as there is many studies showing that high doses of testosterone have a negative effect on cardiovascular/endothelial health.

As far as organ long term use of high doses can be detrimental to heart health.

Only the c-17 alpha alkylated orals such as (anavar/winstrol/methyl-testosterone/dianabol/anadrol/halotestin) used long term and in high doses would definitely damage the liver.....mind you looking at the research anavar and winstrol have a good safety profile regarding negative effects on the liver when used in low doses for longer periods.

Also the c-17 alpha alkylated orals have a negative effect on lipid and are notorious for LOWERING HDL and INCREASING LDL cholesterol!
 
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