SC injection in hip/glute?

Vince · May 22, 2018

madman said:
Yes its still low for a Total T trough but no where near VERY low its almost 500 ng/dl and even than we do not even know his free t which is what really matters and seeing as his shbg is near the low end his free t levels may be descent or not until than we are only guessing.

So understand that it is still a big jump!

I injected between 140mg of T per week to 200mg of T per week and for whatever reason I felt my best at 200mg at week. If we don't try different levels how do we what works? We must treat TRT patience as individuals, as you know one size doesn't fit all.

S1W · May 22, 2018

CZS,

I won't comment on your protocol as others have that covered, but to answer your question about SubQ ventrogluteal injections - yes, those sites are good to use. That's what I use twice per week.

As you mentioned, a lot of guys (myself included) find belly fat injections to be uncomfortable. They were fine with HCG for me, but T. Cyp. always left a sore spot. No harm in trying though to see if it works for you - there are users on this forum that use stomach fat injections without any issues.

FeelingLost · May 22, 2018

Hi CZS, I'll take a stab and what I see in your bloods.
I'm a cyclist myself not road but mtn. There are not many of us here. Most here are Gym rats(not a cut) and I have found it hard to talk long term endurance. When I talk about Hammer Gels, Ritz crackers, peanutbutter and honey you should see them flip out haha its all in good fun.

You are healths as a horse, no blood sugar issues.
When my HCT goes over 51 my doc will ask for a blood donation. 49 is my non TRT HCT I am sure it is from the bike and living in Denver.
Your SHBG of 24 means you are burning thru T like crazy. My SHGB is also 24.2 (19.3-76.4) I have to inject 3 times a week.
I will guess by only taking 1 shot a week your T lvl is swinging wildy you have pissed it all out by the time you take your trough blood draw on Monday before your shot.

Since you do not have an AI at the ready. I would not go over 120/wk and I would do .20 (40mg) M/W/F then take bloods in 5-6 weeks.
If the doc won't do the bloods that soon go to Nelsons https://www.discountedlabs.com/hormones and order just the tests you need nothing more.
Many of us here use this service it is fantastic for getting dialed in quick.

If your E2 sen and prolactin are in range then up your dose.
FYI with my SHGB at 24.2 (19-76) when I took .20(40mg) 3 times a week it gave me a 1175 trough(264-916) and FT was 33 (6.6-18.1) I take .375/Wk AI E2 sens 28.8 (8-35)

CZS · May 22, 2018

FeelingLost said:
Hi CZS, I'll take a stab and what I see in your bloods.
I'm a cyclist myself not road but mtn. There are not many of us here. Most here are Gym rats(not a cut) and I have found it hard to talk long term endurance. When I talk about Hammer Gels, Ritz crackers, peanutbutter and honey you should see them flip out haha its all in good fun.

You are healths as a horse, no blood sugar issues.
When my HCT goes over 51 my doc will ask for a blood donation. 49 is my non TRT HCT I am sure it is from the bike and living in Denver.
Your SHBG of 24 means you are burning thru T like crazy. My SHGB is also 24.2 (19.3-76.4) I have to inject 3 times a week.
I will guess by only taking 1 shot a week your T lvl is swinging wildy you have pissed it all out by the time you take your trough blood draw on Monday before your shot.

Since you do not have an AI at the ready. I would not go over 120/wk and I would do .20 (40mg) M/W/F then take bloods in 5-6 weeks.
If the doc won't do the bloods that soon go to Nelsons https://www.discountedlabs.com/hormones and order just the tests you need nothing more.
Many of us here use this service it is fantastic for getting dialed in quick.

If your E2 sen and prolactin are in range then up your dose.
FYI with my SHGB at 24.2 (19-76) when I took .20(40mg) 3 times a week it gave me a 1175 trough(264-916) and FT was 33 (6.6-18.1) I take .375/Wk AI E2 sens 28.8 (8-35)

Thanks for the reply FeelingLost! I'm pretty convinced to try (at least) E3.5 to see what effect it has on my levels. I have follow up labs scheduled for about 3 weeks from now and again in early August so I should be able to get a fairly good picture of how the twice a week protocol is affecting me. Out of curiosity, have you tried any less frequent than 3x week? Just wondered if you were having issues even at twice a week?

I'd like to stay away from the AI if I can get by without, but I'm going to preemptively discuss this with the Dr next time around so we're on the same page should the need arise. I realize that with E2 approaching 30, going up to 120-150 on my T will likely push me over the threshold.

madman · May 22, 2018

Vince said:
I injected between 140mg of T per week to 200mg of T per week and for whatever reason I felt my best at 200mg at week. If we don't try different levels how do we what works? We must treat TRT patience as individuals, as you know one size doesn't fit all.

You are right we are all individuals and one size does not fit all.

Maybe you did feel your best at 200mg/week but that dosage would put most mens total/free t well over the top end of the physiological range.

There is nothing wrong with trying different levels it is part of the game and trial/error is needed but testosterone is a powerful hormone not a supplement and one should always start low and go slow as one does not know how they will react and how overall hormones/other blood markers will be effected.

CZS has lower shbg and was only injecting once weekly which is going to work against him and going from 100mg/week to 150mg/week is a big jump let alone 200mg/week.

If he increased his overall weekly dose slightly and splits it into more frequent injections he would see better results in total/free t levels as oppose to injecting once weekly.

Sure how one feels regarding improvements in low t symptoms/overall well being is what matters but labs are needed as guidance to know how a specific dose/protocol is going to effect the patients hormones/blood markers and to avoid having too high/too low testosterone levels let alone avoiding any negative effects regarding health markers.

paralyzer · May 22, 2018

CZS said:
I recently increased my dosage from 100mg to 150mg weekly and considering going to E3.5D to try and head off potential side effects as the dose increases. Instead of injecting IM twice a week (seems a bit excessive), I'm contemplating using an insulin syringe to deliver the dose SC, but in the same general location as I've been injecting IM (ie in the ventrogluteal or dorsogluteal region). Is anyone doing this? Any reason I shouldn't give it a go? Seems I've heard several men with issues with irritation when injecting SC around the belly/navel.

By the way, thanks for the phenomenal resource here, I've learned a lot just by lurking!

I do SC shots in the thigh and they work great. I usually do it with 1/2" needles. Whatever you inject usually gets into the muscle pretty quick (or it should for most). Give it a try. You'll know quickly if it works for you.

CZS · May 23, 2018

First off, thanks for all the replies. I'm determined to get this dialed in, with or without my physicians help.

A couple of quick follow up questions before I start this shallow IM/SC twice a week thing.

1) Are you guys backfilling the insulin syringe or drawing straight from the vial?

2) Since I've been on 150mg/wk for two weeks now, what would be a comparable dosage when going to E3.5D? 60mg per injection? 70mg?

Vince · May 23, 2018

madman said:
You are right we are all individuals and one size does not fit all.

Maybe you did feel your best at 200mg/week but that dosage would put most mens total/free t well over the top end of the physiological range.

There is nothing wrong with trying different levels it is part of the game and trial/error is needed but testosterone is a powerful hormone not a supplement and one should always start low and go slow as one does not know how they will react and how overall hormones/other blood markers will be effected.

CZS has lower shbg and was only injecting once weekly which is going to work against him and going from 100mg/week to 150mg/week is a big jump let alone 200mg/week.

If he increased his overall weekly dose slightly and splits it into more frequent injections he would see better results in total/free t levels as oppose to injecting once weekly.

Sure how one feels regarding improvements in low t symptoms/overall well being is what matters but labs are needed as guidance to know how a specific dose/protocol is going to effect the patients hormones/blood markers and to avoid having too high/too low testosterone levels let alone avoiding any negative effects regarding health markers.

The protocol that I felt my best was when I was injecting 20 mg type of testosterone cypionate daily. I was told I could stay on that protocol but even though I felt great I just felt my levels were too high. I do at times I think about going back to that level but of course I haven't. Here's my labs when I was on that protocol.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?12800-I-took-a-peek-at-my-Labs

madman · May 23, 2018

Vince said:
The protocol that I felt my best was when I was injecting 20 mg type of testosterone cypionate daily. I was told I could stay on that protocol but even though I felt great I just felt my levels were too high. I do at times I think about going back to that level but of course I haven't. Here's my labs when I was on that protocol.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?12800-I-took-a-peek-at-my-Labs

Yes I remember those and unless those are lab errors that total t >1500 ng/dl is extremely high for trt and your free t can easily come down as you are over double the top end of the range.....sure you have high shbg and it seems odd that your total t/free t levels would be that high.

If those labs are accurate that is way too high of test levels to be running for trt whether one is younger or older.

Vince · May 24, 2018

madman said:
Yes I remember those and unless those are lab errors that total t >1500 ng/dl is extremely high for trt and your free t can easily come down as you are over double the top end of the range.....sure you have high shbg and it seems odd that your total t/free t levels would be that high.

If those labs are accurate that is way too high of test levels to be running for trt whether one is younger or older.

Since that time I changed my protocol to 16mg of testosterone cypionate daily and 500iu of HCG twice a week, I haven't have labs yet. I've only checked my CBC a number of times to make sure my HCT is still good and it has been in a very good range.

FeelingLost · May 24, 2018

CZS said:
First off, thanks for all the replies. I'm determined to get this dialed in, with or without my physicians help.

A couple of quick follow up questions before I start this shallow IM/SC twice a week thing.

1) Are you guys backfilling the insulin syringe or drawing straight from the vial?

2) Since I've been on 150mg/wk for two weeks now, what would be a comparable dosage when going to E3.5D? 60mg per injection? 70mg?

Easy Tough 27ga 1/2" syringe 12 bucks for 100. No back filling just draw and shoot.
Why pick every 3.5 day that is a major pain to keep track of from week to week. Why not Mon morning and Wed night? Simple easy to remember.
In the scheme of T cyp steady state being 40 days twice a week or every 3.5 day is not going to make much if any difference.

S1W · May 24, 2018

FeelingLost said:
Why pick every 3.5 day that is a major pain to keep track of from week to week. Why not Mon morning and Wed night? Simple easy to remember.

Just to be clear and avoid confusing CZS, E3.5D is usually Monday morning and Thursday night - not too hard to keep track of. Doesn't have to be Mon and Thur, but basically pick whatever days work best in your schedule, and you inject on the same days, at roughly the same times, every week. Could be Monday morning/Thursday night, Monday night/Friday morning, Tuesday morning/Saturday night, etc etc.

FeelingLost · May 24, 2018

S1W said:
Just to be clear and avoid confusing CZS, E3.5D is usually Monday morning and Thursday night - not too hard to keep track of. Doesn't have to be Mon and Thur, but basically pick whatever days work best in your schedule, and you inject on the same days, at roughly the same times, every week. Could be Monday morning/Thursday night, Monday night/Friday morning, Tuesday morning/Saturday night, etc etc.

Thanks S1W for that clarification. I did not realize E3.5D is the same thing as twice a week.
For some reason I though you would have to keep swapping days. First week Monday second week Tuesday that kind of thing.

Well the math is pretty simple for his question then.
"150mg/wk for two weeks now, what would be a comparable dosage when going to E3.5D? 60mg per injection? 70mg?"

150 / 2

madman · May 24, 2018

CZS said:
First off, thanks for all the replies. I'm determined to get this dialed in, with or without my physicians help.

A couple of quick follow up questions before I start this shallow IM/SC twice a week thing.

1) Are you guys backfilling the insulin syringe or drawing straight from the vial?

2) Since I've been on 150mg/wk for two weeks now, what would be a comparable dosage when going to E3.5D? 60mg per injection? 70mg?

So if you are going to inject 150 mg/week and you are going to switch to injecting every 3.5 days roughly 84 hrs between injections (does not have to be to the exact hour) and your injection days are say Monday/Thursday than inject 75mg Monday morning at 7 am and inject 75mg on Thursday night at 7pm.

FeelingLost · May 24, 2018

madman said:
So if you are going to inject 150 mg/week and you are going to switch to injecting every 3.5 days roughly 84 hrs between injections (does not have to be to the exact hour) and your injection days are say Monday/Thursday than inject 75mg Monday morning at 7 am and inject 75mg on Thursday night at 7pm.

If he is using std 200mg T cyp .375 is going to be tricky to measure accurately.

CZS · May 24, 2018

madman said:
So if you are going to inject 150 mg/week and you are going to switch to injecting every 3.5 days roughly 84 hrs between injections (does not have to be to the exact hour) and your injection days are say Monday/Thursday than inject 75mg Monday morning at 7 am and inject 75mg on Thursday night at 7pm.

Sorry, I know the math is obviously simple but I was under the impression that when going to more frequent injections, you could typically reduce your total weekly dose (ie 75mg x 2 doesn't necessarily equal 150mg x 1). What say you?

On somewhat of a side note, I'm going to hold up at 150mg, might even reduce to 120-130mg per week. I just don't see any reason to jump past what might be a therapeutic dosage just for the hell of it. Given my labs, what do you gentlemen think it would take to get the trough up to 900 or so?

FeelingLost · May 24, 2018

Hi CZS Here is my trough (weekly low point) @ 150/wk .25(50mg) M/W/F, plus .125 AI M/W/F, plus 400iu of HCG Mon/Thur,. My SHGB is 24.2 pretty much same as yours.

I am now steady state at 120/wk no bloods for a few more months.

CZS · May 24, 2018

FeelingLost said:
Hi CZS Here is what 150/wk .25(50mg) M/W/F plus .125 AI M/W/F gave me. My SHGB is 24.2

I am now steady state at 120/wk no bloods for a few more months.

Those look great FeelingLost, I'd take that for sure

FeelingLost · May 24, 2018

CZS said:
Those look great FeelingLost, I'd take that for sure

I was on 150/wk for 2 months.
My wife could not take it. We could have sex for an hour and 3 hours later I was horny again. I could hold my stiffy for just about ever and only release(climax) when I wanted. It does make you feel like f-ing superman.
At 120/wk we have very good sex twice a week and it is perfect. No drooling over every set of tits I see at the grocery store. haha. Oh she is also on HRT.
It would be cruel and painful if only the mans hormones were tuned up.

madman · May 24, 2018

FeelingLost said:
If he is using std 200mg T cyp .375 is going to be tricky to measure accurately.

I have been doing it for well over a year as I use a BD-U100 -1ml 28 gauge 1/2 inch and yes there is a line on there where you basically have to eye half of a half between the lines so yes you may be a hair over/under but my labs have been consistent regarding total t/free t levels.

He could look into using the .5ml insulin syringes as accuracy would be much better as the lines are further apart and if by chance one was injecting .3ml or less than there are .3ml syringes which are even easier to read than the .5ml syringes.

SC injection in hip/glute?

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