Peak vs Trough Levels?

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Question for those more knowledgeable: I have been taking testosterone cypionate and my trough levels have been running at approximately 850 total testosterone. From what I understand, peak levels occur in two days. If 850 is the trough, then what might the high end levels be? I'd love to have a peak level blood draw, but good luck getting that covered by insurance. I'm curious because my energy, strength, and libido are consistent. I inject every 7 days and never notice any variations.

Anybody got any ideas on this or how I can calculate?
 
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crazydiamond

New Member
For me - I see about less than 10% reduction from mid cycle to end cycle. However I will admit I have only tested maybe twice at end cycle. I almost always test at mid cycle but have tested closer to peak as well.

I also understand natural full generators of T (guys who dont need TRT) to have notable variations of T that vary by time of day, and daily - also by stress, and other factors in the body. I suspect guys on mostly replaced T have less random fluctuations in total T as its a artificial controlled source (although FT and E2 would vary). But I am not an expert.

As far as insurance - I can get blood draws at least twice a year for T, FT and E2 (physical and hormone doc visits) so once your set on your dosage and range... its possible to pick your cycle test day just for information. I should do some more test variations myself now that I have settled in on a slightly upped dosage.
 
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Vince

Super Moderator
Here's a old thread by CoastWatcher that my help.

For the past nine weeks I've been injecting 60mgs of test enth every 3.5 days.

Results on a "peak" (24 hours after injection injection):

Total Test: 1035 ng/dL (348 - 1197)

Free Test: 20.3 pg/mL (7.2 -24.0)

Estradiol (Sensitive LC/MS/MS): 55.6 pg/mL (8.0-35.0)

SHBG: 27.3 nmol/L (19.3-76.4)

Results on a "trough" (just prior to injection):

Total Test: 733 ng/dL (348 - 1197)

Free Test: 14.0 pg/mL (7.2 -24.0)

SHBG: 22.8 nmol/L (19.3-76.4)

Estradiol (Sensitive LC/MS/MS): 31.8 pg/mL (8.0-35.0)

Even on twice-weekly injections I clear testosterone more quickly than I'd like, but I feel great.

The estradiol level might suggest concern, but applying the ratio that Nelson and others use as a factor in evaluating e2 puts me in a comfortable spot at the peak and only slightly above the suggested value at the trough. As noted, I do fee good. Would you agree that there is NO NEED for an AI? I would think any adjustments could be made by pulling the total test dose from 60mg twice-a-week to 40mg. But I'm inclined to leave as things as they are, enjoy how I'm feeling, listen to my body, and test regularly.

But I would appreciate any thoughts as to this approach.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?4321-Trough-Peak-Values-and-Testosterone-E2-Ratio
 

madman

Super Moderator
Question for those more knowledgeable: I have been taking testosterone cypionate and my trough levels have been running at approximately 850 total testosterone. From what I understand, peak levels occur in two days. If 850 is the trough, then what might the high end levels be? I'd love to have a peak level blood draw, but good luck getting that covered by insurance. I'm curious because my energy, strength, and libido are consistent. I inject every 7 days and never notice any variations.

Anybody got any ideas on this or how I can calculate?


Peak levels are 24-48 hrs post injection.

It is hard to say exactly as intra-individual variabilty - ones shbg levels, sensitivity of the AR(androgen receptor), dose/frequency of injection.

Less frequent injections (once weekly) or god forbid (once every 2 weeks) using a higher dose will result in a higher peak and lower trough as oppose to one who is injecting more frequently as in (M/W/F, EOD, DAILY) using lower doses as the peaks/troughs will be more balanced out resulting in more stable testosterone levels.

I am not sure where your shbg sits but if it is in a descent range than your peak 24-48 hrs post injection would be supra-physiological and more than likely 1000+.

All that said the only true way to know is to have labs done 24 and 48 hrs post injection to see where your levels are at.

Not sure what the individual cost for total t/free t are in the US for specific labs you use but it would be worth having them done if you really want to know as we can only guess at best!
 
Question for those more knowledgeable: I have been taking testosterone cypionate and my trough levels have been running at approximately 850 total testosterone. From what I understand, peak levels occur in two days. If 850 is the trough, then what might the high end levels be? I’d love to have a peak level blood draw, but good luck getting that covered by insurance. I’m curious because my energy, strength, and libido are consistent. I inject every 7 days and never notice any variations.

Anybody got any ideas on this or how I can calculate?

Don't be so cheap MM. Nelson's got you covered. Just order a TT FT test. It's only 30 bucks right now.
https://www.discountedlabs.com/testosterone-total-and-free-regular

I still have a real hard time figuring this trough thing out. I inject M/W/F so I am told I should draw Monday morning before my shot.
But that is 48 hours after my Friday shot when it is peaking. So that can't possibly be a trough.
I believe the trough thing only works if you inject once or twice a week. For everyone else who knows when you are at your true low for the week.
 

madman

Super Moderator
Don't be so cheap MM. Nelson's got you covered. Just order a TT FT test. It's only 30 bucks right now.
https://www.discountedlabs.com/testosterone-total-and-free-regular

I still have a real hard time figuring this triugh thing out. I inject M/W/F so I am told I should draw Monday morning before my shot.
But that is 48 hours after my Friday shot when it is peaking. So that can't possibly be a trough.
I believe the trough thing only works if you inject once or twice a week. For everyone else who knows when you are at your true low for the week.
D

If you are injecting M/W/F in the (AM) than if you have labs done on Monday morning it would be 72 hrs (your longest period) since your last injection (Friday morning).
 

S1W

Well-Known Member
Based on the variations I've seen on the forum there probably isn't an accurate way to calculate it that would work for everyone. I'm getting into the habit of doing my main labs at trough and just doing a TT/FT lab at peak. My last labs, peak was 1486 and trough was 879. The peak level seems insanely high given that I'm only using 60mg E3.5D and may be lab error. Last labs from a previous, lower dose protocol had me at about 775 peak and 500 trough (not exact numbers - don't have labs with me now).

Regarding insurance - it's fairly inexpensive to just do the sub-1500 TT/FT lab through discountedlabs.com
 
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If you are injecting M/W/F in the (AM) than if you have labs done on Monday morning it would be 72 hrs (your longest period) since your last injection (Friday morning).

Thank madman, yeah I got the idea from here that for M/W/F protocols one should inject Mon morning, Wed afternoon and Friday night.
But even at that it is still my longest time between shot. Do you thing T cyp ramp up to peak and decay are about the same time or is it more like a cliff after peak?
 

madman

Super Moderator
Thank madman, yeah I got the idea from here that for M/W/F protocols one should inject Mon morning, Wed afternoon and Friday night.
But even at that it is still my longest time between shot. Do you thing T cyp ramp up to peak and decay are about the same time or is it more like a cliff after peak?

I did not realize you were injecting at those times as I thought your injections were in the AM as I think it would be an easier routine as oppose to (morning/afternoon/night).

So if your last injection is Friday night than come Monday morning labs it would be roughly 54-60 hrs post as I am not sure exactly what time your Friday night injection is (7-11 pm maybe).

Even if one were to inject either Friday morning or night highly doubtful there would be a drastic drop from peak-trough unless on had low shbg and even than injecting using the M/W/F protocol would still result in more stable levels as oppose to once weekly.

We are all guessing at best as it comes down to ones shbg levels and dose/injection frequency!
 
I did not realize you were injecting at those times as I thought your injections were in the AM as I think it would be an easier routine as oppose to (morning/afternoon/night).

So if your last injection is Friday night than come Monday morning labs it would be roughly 54-60 hrs post as I am not sure exactly what time your Friday night injection is (7-11 pm maybe).

Even if one were to inject either Friday morning or night highly doubtful there would be a drastic drop from peak-trough unless on had low shbg and even than injecting using the M/W/F protocol would still result in more stable levels as oppose to once weekly.

We are all guessing at best as it comes down to ones shbg levels and dose/injection frequency!

I am considering late nite only, just before bed, in the future. I get a very strange reaction post injecting. It makes me tired and lazy for the first 6-8 hours.
I've been injecting T cyp in grapeseed oil for 6 months and this feeling has not changed. My dose has varied from 32-50mg over that 6 months.
 

dl500

New Member
Question for those more knowledgeable: I have been taking testosterone cypionate and my trough levels have been running at approximately 850 total testosterone. From what I understand, peak levels occur in two days. If 850 is the trough, then what might the high end levels be? I’d love to have a peak level blood draw, but good luck getting that covered by insurance. I’m curious because my energy, strength, and libido are consistent. I inject every 7 days and never notice any variations.



Anybody got any ideas on this or how I can calculate?

You can go through discountedlabs.com and get voucher for Labcorps and the cost is $30.45 (includes Total and Free Testosterone). I have done this a few times and got results faster than GP office.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
You can go through discountedlabs.com and get voucher for Labcorps and the cost is $30.45 (includes Total and Free Testosterone). I have done this a few times and got results faster than GP office.

One thing I have learned in the USA, if a Doctor/GP orders the test, labcorp will give the doctor the results two days before you can get them.
 
I inject every 3.5 days and have tested TT “Peak” 48 hr after injection and “Trough” a couple hours before next injection and 90% of tests over 3 years show a variance of approximately 300 ng/dL. between “Peak and Trough”
 
Discount labs is out for me. I live in southwestern New Hampshire and Vt, MA, and NH don't allow it. I'm curious because I inject weekly 120 to 140 mg test cypionate and don't notice any peak or valley. I feel essentially the same all the time. I think I have it dialed in and that's the reason or maybe that being older is an advantage .
 

sh1973

Well-Known Member
Discount labs is out for me. I live in southwestern New Hampshire and Vt, MA, and NH don't allow it. I'm curious because I inject weekly 120 to 140 mg test cypionate and don't notice any peak or valley. I feel essentially the same all the time. I think I have it dialed in and that's the reason or maybe that being older is an advantage .
90% of the 8.5 years on TRT have been weekly and have never noticed a dip. I have tried a few times breaking up the injections with terrible end results even using the same dose. Most guys that I know personally outside of the forums do best on weekly doses. In my opinion the less pokes the better by any measure.
 

S1W

Well-Known Member
90% of the 8.5 years on TRT have been weekly and have never noticed a dip. I have tried a few times breaking up the injections with terrible end results even using the same dose. Most guys that I know personally outside of the forums do best on weekly doses. In my opinion the less pokes the better by any measure.

You've been at this way longer than me, so I'd value your feedback regarding injection frequency. I keep hearing that people seem to be able to stabilize levels and lower E2 by injecting more frequently - was that not your experience?
 

sh1973

Well-Known Member
Really hard to put a finger on. My theory is there needs to be some variation in certain people to attain symptom relief. My levels stayed sort of stable by splitting the dose but felt really bad and the worst with subQ. I’ve recently went to 68mg once weekly and feel fantastic. I have very high shbg as well in the 60-70 range, so at least in my situation it proves a person can feel good with lower free testosterone. I’m going to do labs in a few weeks but based on prior dosage labs I’m more than likely in the 8-10ng free t range and wouldn’t change a thing. For the first time in 8 years, if I never knew what my levels were, I wouldn’t care. I personally think the theory of free t having to be high to feel well is flawed at best. I think if more men would start in the 50-60mg and work up slowly there’d be many more men happy on trt.
 
90% of the 8.5 years on TRT have been weekly and have never noticed a dip. I have tried a few times breaking up the injections with terrible end results even using the same dose. Most guys that I know personally outside of the forums do best on weekly doses. In my opinion the less pokes the better by any measure.
I would love to cut back to once a week just so I don't have to think about TRT every dam day.
When I was on Testim Gel 1% 1 tube per day my TT steady state was 630 and my SHGB was 38.
When I went to T cyp 150/wk 3 shots a week my SHGB droped to 24.2
If it is true that larger doses decrease your SHGB.......well I don't want my SHGB dropping anymore..
 
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