The boron supremacy

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DragonBits

Well-Known Member
My recent experience with boron.

I did blood tests on 1/5/2018, 2/20/2018 and 4/21/2018. The only thing I changed was taking the boron supplement late February.

The first month I mixed up my own boron from 20 mule team borax, so I was probably taking 7-10 mg daily, since I would take a cap-full of borax concentrate I mixed up. The next month I took 6 mg of boron daily from a supplement, calcium borogluconate.

My SHBG, C-reactive protein, free testosterone, total testosterone levels and PSA levels all changed substantially.

I attached the last two labs. My SHBG likely declined from 42 to 35.9 nmol/L. I say likely because the last time I measured SHBG was in 2015, so I don’t have a good baseline. but it’s the only way to explain the increase in free testosterone. And as I have read, SHBG normally doesn’t change much.

C-reactive protein declined from 3.38 > 2.01, though I don’t have a baseline on c-reactive, these two tests were the only time I measured it.

Free T increased from 5.5 ng/dl > 7.5 ng/dl. I have measured FT numerous times, it has never been as high as 7.5 without either clomid or Nebido. Usually it is around 5.5 ng/dl.

Total Testosterone decreased from 390.01 ng/dl > 348 ng/dl. Not sure why. Question, if more TT is converted to estradiol, does this then mean TT will go down? Or is the change in SHBG the main factor in an increase in estradiol?

Estradiol increased from less than 5.0 pg/mL > 11.1 pg/mL. I do note that the first estradiol test was ECLIA method, the second was sensitive LC/MS/MS version.

PSA decreased from 2.8 > 2.4 ng/mL. This was interesting, I have 4 other measurements for PSA dating back to 1996, there has been a small increase in each test from 2.1 in 1996 to 2.8 in Jan 2018, then a decline to 2.4 ng/dl in 4 months. I think that was the most surprising blood test change.

Anecdotally, I believe I am absorbing magnesium more effectively. When I do 2 sets of 60 abdominal crunches, in the past I would always get some ab cramps when I would stand up. I would have to carefully stretch out my abs to get it to go away. Amazing, I didn’t get any cramps at all this time.

Now I do have a Vitamin D level of 46.1 ng/ml. which is in the middle of the range, a lot of people have low vitamin d. And I do take two types of magnesium, so I have more than adequate intake of magnesium. Serum MG was 2.1 mg/dL (1.6-2.3 mg/dl range).

I mention this because boron works synergistically with calcium, magnesium and Vitamin D. The USDA says boron reduced excretion of calcium by over 40% in the kidneys, and helped activate vitamin D.

So, I suspect that if one does not have adequate levels of Vitamin D or magnesium, or if you take less than 6 mg of Boron, or if you already have adequate blood levels of boron, your results will differ. I can see there are a lot of possible confounding factors.

(FYI, I orders the last blood test in 4/21/2018 to enroll in TRT, and I wasn't really expecting any significant changes. Though I did order tests I never did before, like IGF-1.)

My experience has been that I will always include at least 6 mg of boron in any future supplements.
 

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DragonBits

Well-Known Member
Thanks, more good reasons for me to continue supplementing with boron.

Boron for bone density

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7007-Boron-for-bone-density


You are right about bone density being one of the main issues, but I can't get a read on improvements in bone density.

For one, never bothered with any sort of baseline, and it likely takes 12-36 months for improvements to show up. So it would be a matter of faith in the science.

Weight training is one of the other very good ways to maintain healthy bones.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
I had a bone density test a few years ago, before I started boron. I plan to test again at the end of next year.
 

Vettester Chris

Super Moderator
Very interesting!! Thanks for taking the time to keep a log on this. Between this and Vince's posts, I'm getting tuned into this real quick. Ordering today!
 

madman

Super Moderator
6 mg/day from supplementation is overkill......................3 mg/day from external sources is all that is needed.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
6 mg/day from supplementation is overkill......................3 mg/day from external sources is all that is needed.

You could be right, many studies used 3mg of boron supplement. But other studies used 6 mg, some used 11.6 mg.

But it appeared to me that the studies that showed an effect on SHBG, hsCRP and free T were all at 6 mg up to 11.6 mg.



The UL upper limit of boron is 20 mg, but that appears arbitrary. Workers in boric acid production plant averaged 12.6 mg/d, with no adverse effects.


If you can find evidence that even 12 mgs a day of boron supplement is harmful, I would be interested in reading about it. Some people get upwards of 30 mg a day from their diet.


I feel leafy vegetables grown in the USA don’t have a lot of boron or magnesium in them, and I while I eat some plants containing boron, I by no means eat a lot.

Here are excerpts of studies done on higher levels of boron supplement.
=====================================

Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on plasma steroid hormones and proinflammatory cytokines.

Boron possesses widespread properties in biochemistry and nutrition. Acute supplementation with 11.6 mg of boron resulted in a significant increase in plasma boron concentration.

Six hours supplementation showed a significant decrease on sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), high sensitive CRP (hsCRP) and TNF-α level. After one week (in samples taken at 8.00 A.M, only), the mean plasma free testosterone increased and the mean plasma estradiol decreased significantly. Dihydrotestosterone, cortisol and vitamin D was elevated. Also, concentrations of all three inflammatory biomarkers decreased after supplementation. Of note, despite decreased proinflammatory cytokines, based on recent clinical data, this must be the first human study report to show an increase level of free testosterone after boron consumption.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941

After only 1 week of boron supplementation of 6 mg/d, a further study by Naghii et al20 of healthy males (n = 8) found (1) a significant increase in free testosterone, which rose from an average of 11.83 pg/mL to 15.18 pg/mL; and (2) significant decreases in E2, which dropped from 42.33 pg/mL to 25.81 pg/mL. All of the inflammatory biomarkers that were measured also decreased: (1) interleukin (IL) 6, from 1.55 pg/mL to 0.87 pg/mL; (2) high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP) by approximately 50%, a remarkable decrease, from 1460 ng/mL to 795 ng/mL; and (3) tumor necrosis factor α (TNF-α) by approximately 30%, from 12.32 to 9.97 pg/mL. Levels of dihydrotestosterone, cortisol, and vitamin D increased slightly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4712861/

===============================================

Of course, it is possible to poison yourself with anything. A man committed suicide by consuming 2 CUPS of boric acid crystals dissolved in water.

This is the only adult reported to die from acute boric acid ingestion in recent years and may be atypical since the patient was untreated for 3 days and presented with dehydration and renal function impairment. This case suggests that lack of adequate urine flow and dehydration increases the risk of boron toxicity.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1388380

I was reporting what I did, and I feel 6 mg isn’t going to present any sort of problem and was the dose most likely to have an effect, even 12 mg would be OK but maybe wasteful. And I don’t like to push the boundary that far, as I doubt it would be any more effective.

Boron supplements are cheap, so I chose 6 mg.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
Examine.com https://examine.com/supplements/boron/


I would not rely on a few studies.


As far as the literature there are minimal studies in humans using boron https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22433045




I agree, if I believed all the studies I would have accepted that 350 ng/dl total testosterone is well within the normal range and I should not pursue TRT.


But I base boron on my own blood tests and experience, just like I base TRT on my own personal experience. Boron isn't going to have the same effect as testosterone, but it makes noticeable difference in blood tests in a short period of time, I can only speculate about longer term benefits. .

BTW, that NIH boron study you gave a link to was in 2008, you need to look at studies done within the last 3 years.
 

madman

Super Moderator
I agree, if I believed all the studies I would have accepted that 350 ng/dl total testosterone is well within the normal range and I should not pursue TRT.


But I base boron on my own blood tests and experience, just like I base TRT on my own personal experience. Boron isn't going to have the same effect as testosterone, but it makes noticeable difference in blood tests in a short period of time, I can only speculate about longer term benefits. .

BTW, that NIH boron study you gave a link to was in 2008, you need to look at studies done within the last 3 years.

I have already seen the newer studies and as I stated there is minimal literature regarding boron use in humans especially RCT (randomized controlled trials).

The majority of studies regarding boron are related to plants/animals.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
I have already seen the newer studies and as I stated there is minimal literature regarding boron use in humans especially RCT (randomized controlled trials).

The majority of studies regarding boron are related to plants/animals.
What dose is used?

The following doses have been studied in scientific research:

BY MOUTH
:There is no Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for boron since an essential biological role for it has not been identified. People consume varying amounts of boron depending on their diet. Diets considered to be high in boron provide approximately 3.25 mg of boron per 2000 kcal per day. Diets considered to be low in boron provide 0.25 mg of boron per 2000 kcal per day.

The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL), the maximum dose at which no harmful effects would be expected, is 20 mg per day for adults and pregnant or breast-feeding women over 19 years of age. For adolescents 14 to 18 years of age and pregnant or breast-feeding women 14 to 18 years of age, the UL is 17 mg per day. For children 9 to 13 years old, the UL is 11 mg per day; children 4 to 8 years old, 6 mg per day; and children 1 to 3 years old, 3 mg per day. A UL has not been established for infants.
VAGINALLY
:For vaginal infections: 600 mg of boric acid powder once or twice a day.
For prevention of recurring Candida (yeast) infections: 600 mg twice weekly.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7007-Boron-for-bone-density
 

madman

Super Moderator
What dose is used?

The following doses have been studied in scientific research:

BY MOUTH
:There is no Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for boron since an essential biological role for it has not been identified. People consume varying amounts of boron depending on their diet. Diets considered to be high in boron provide approximately 3.25 mg of boron per 2000 kcal per day. Diets considered to be low in boron provide 0.25 mg of boron per 2000 kcal per day.

The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL), the maximum dose at which no harmful effects would be expected, is 20 mg per day for adults and pregnant or breast-feeding women over 19 years of age. For adolescents 14 to 18 years of age and pregnant or breast-feeding women 14 to 18 years of age, the UL is 17 mg per day. For children 9 to 13 years old, the UL is 11 mg per day; children 4 to 8 years old, 6 mg per day; and children 1 to 3 years old, 3 mg per day. A UL has not been established for infants.
VAGINALLY
:For vaginal infections: 600 mg of boric acid powder once or twice a day.
For prevention of recurring Candida (yeast) infections: 600 mg twice weekly.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7007-Boron-for-bone-density

Handful of RCT in humans used anywhere from 3-6mg and yes there are some good RCT studies but overall the bulk of studies regarding boron research were done using plants/animals.

If you sift through the literature many of the other studies in humans are not controlled well.

If one is already deficient in boron due to lack of getting enough through diet than supplementation may very well enhance ones health.

As far as supplementing when one is already consuming an adequate amount there may be additional benefits with intakes over 3mg/day related to bone health, osteoarthritis and some other health related issues.

As far as the 2015 paper Nothing Boring About Boron all the aspects studied were not all done using RCT and the word "may" is used quite often.

I do not deny that adequate levels of boron plays a role in ones health and can have a positive impact but I would not expect any miracles through supplementation.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
Hmmmm
DragonBits... Another "Crash Test Dummy" :)
I was going to jump in at the 6mg level but a "Crash Test Dummy" like me needs to slow down (I have a tendency to just jump in..)
I will start at a lower dose and work up to 6mg, with labs, to back up any changes.
I will track it here:
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?14556-Nothing-Boring-About-Boron
More to follow :)

I know what you mean about crash test dummy.

Back maybe 30 years ago, I used to take[FONT=Amazon Ember, Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]Full Spectrum Mineral supplement. I got a kidney stone, after that I never took any mineral supplements, not even calcium. Kidney stone, most painful thing ever. At first I couldn't decide, appendicitis kidney pain or gall stone, it had to be something bad??


22 years ago I used to take a lot of DHEA, I wrote on the report it was 50 mg a day. Then I did a blood test. My serum level of dhea-s was 6672 ng/ml, (800-5600). It didn't seem to help anything at all, my total testos at the time was 376 ng/dl, and my liver enzymes were mildly elevated. I lost interest in DHEA supplements. I didn't feel any different, and I didn't ask for free testos, but it didn't seem to "help" anything.


My last blood test in April, my dhea-s was 958 ng/dl (309-2950). I don't take DHEA supplements. (The range changed from the test 20 years ago, not sure why) Some people report that DHEA works for them, maybe it's an individual response situation, it seems to do nothing for me.


BTW, without blood tests, the only effect I detected from the boron was less muscle cramping when doing ab crunches. And who knows, I might have gotten the same effect from 3 mg, but IMO there isn't any harm in taking 6mg or even more.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
BTW, without blood tests, the only effect I detected from the boron was less muscle cramping when doing ab crunches. And who knows, I might have gotten the same effect from 3 mg, but IMO there isn't any harm in taking 6mg or even more.

My girlfriend has been getting muscle cramps at night, I wonder if she starts supplementing with boron if it would relieve her muscle cramps? I think it's worth the try.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
muscle cramp are complicated

My girlfriend has been getting muscle cramps at night, I wonder if she starts supplementing with boron if it would relieve her muscle cramps? I think it's worth the try.

I would recommend a combination of magnesium and boron, assuming her hydration is good, and she gets adequate calcium and phosphorus.

Muscle cramps can be complicated, magnesium, calcium and phosphorus imbalances, and good hydration can all be factors, as well as over exertion.

I used to get muscle cramps everywhere, even in my back, toes and ribs. I spent months looking into how to stop them and trying various things.

In the end, magnesium is the only thing that helped both me and my mother with muscle cramps.

However, even taking a lot of magnesium (Magtein and triple magnesium complex all total 156% div), which is often hard to absorb, I would still get muscle cramps when doing some exercises like the Ab crunches. Adding boron helped with that. I assume I could take less magnesium now than I currently take.

For me, magnesium is more important for muscle cramps, but boron helps with the absorption of magnesium and calcium and has synergistic benefits with Vitamin D. So adding boron helped for not only muscle cramps but many things.


good luck
 

Vince

Super Moderator
She's on a good magnesium supplement so I'm hoping the missing link is boron. I'm definitely going to talk about it with her tonight and knowing her I'm sure she'll be on board.
 
This must not be a mainstream supplement.
My wife during this springs annual checkup was diagnosed with Osteoperous(sp?) by her new PCP. They did some kind of bone scan and her hips came back a 3 and the scale or range only goes to 4. Neither her PCP or Defy HRT doc(who was notified right away) recommended boron.

Her supplements are: K2, Omega3, CoQ10, Calcium, D3, DHEA.
Her HRT is the big 3 T,P,E using 2 compounded creams
her PCP has added a bisphosphonate after the diagnosis.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
This must not be a mainstream supplement.
My wife during this springs annual checkup was diagnosed with Osteoperous(sp?) by her new PCP. They did some kind of bone scan and her hips came back a 3 and the scale or range only goes to 4. Neither her PCP or Defy HRT doc(who was notified right away) recommended boron.

Her supplements are: K2, Omega3, CoQ10, Calcium, D3, DHEA.
Her HRT is the big 3 T,P,E using 2 compounded creams
her PCP has added a bisphosphonate after the diagnosis.

No it's not mainstream in the United States, when my GP saw (she's from Poland) that it was on my list of supplements that I take. She knew right away I was using it for strengthening my joints and bones, she told me that's what they have women supplement with in Europe stop osteoporosis.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
6 mg/day from supplementation is overkill......................3 mg/day from external sources is all that is needed.

Madman I was rummaging around the internet when I stumbled on this testos booster and thought of you.


TEST1FY INGREDIENTS



Calcium Fructoborate (FruiteX-B®)

500 mg




Of course it has a lot of other ingredients, but 500 mg of boron, that's a lot. When I looked at test1ft, I see some with 500 mg, but there are so many products by Olympus Labs that It's difficult to determine which is current and which is old and what they are currently producing. Maybe they changed their formula without changing the name?


http://www.testosteroneboostersreview.com/reviews/test1fy-review/


Personally, I think anything over 10 mg boron is a waste of money, and I would be leery of taking over 20 mg on a sustained basis for any reason.

But it was interesting to see so many testos boosters have boron as a part of their formula.
 
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