1. #1

    low testosterone vs low thyroid

    I was wandering how similar the symptoms are between low thyroid or low testosterone. Can low thyroid cause youíre body to not make as much testosterone as it should or cause youíre testosterone not to work as well it should? Also does taking cytomel lower testosterone by increasing shbg?

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  3. #2
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    One thing I do know hypothyroidism can cause low testosterone. I now believe most men should check their thyroid levels before starting testosterone, wish I would have.

    https://www.restartmed.com/thyroid-symptoms-men/
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  4. #3
    Super Moderator Vettester Chris's Avatar
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    Yes ^^^^ the correlation exist!
    Please, no PM's posting lab results ... Let's Keep them on the Open Forum for Everyone to Comment. Feel free to PM me a link to your thread if you would like me to comment. Thanks!!


    I am not a Doctor, I only play one on T.V. Please consult your physician, or a trained-licensed physician before proceeding with any comments or suggestions posted on this or any forum.


  5. #4
    The phrase, "the master gland," became a clichť for a good reason. There's truth in it.
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

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    I believe thyroid testing should be included with any pre TRT test. At least T3& T4. Hope Defy and Primebody read this. Been there done that. Have been on T therapy for 3 years and recently found out RT3 was high as well as low T3.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by JayLay777 View Post
    I was wandering how similar the symptoms are between low thyroid or low testosterone. Can low thyroid cause you’re body to not make as much testosterone as it should or cause you’re testosterone not to work as well it should? Also does taking cytomel lower testosterone by increasing shbg?
    Yes symptoms for both are very similar to each other. Low thyroid can effect all other hormones... not just testosterone. Taking normal dosages of cytomel does not affect SHBG. Only huge doses of cytomel does this.. for example people who subscribe to the concept of clearing their high RT3 with large doses of T3 only, see increases in their SHBG, but this protocol is temporary as it never goes on longer than 12 weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Draw View Post
    I believe thyroid testing should be included with any pre TRT test. At least T3& T4. Hope Defy and Primebody read this. Been there done that. Have been on T therapy for 3 years and recently found out RT3 was high as well as low T3.
    That would cost over 400 bucks (Trt 200 Thyroid panel 240). Pretty steep when one is getting started.

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    I would have paid it in a heartbeat knowing now what I didnít know then.

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    Super Moderator Vettester Chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Draw View Post
    I would have paid it in a heartbeat knowing now what I didn’t know then.
    Agree ... small price to pay to start getting back on course with a real life. I remember spending thousands a year on junk and things that were counterproductive. It's a matter of priorities and what the goals are in 10, 20 and 30 years beyond now.

    In my case, HRT and lifestyle changes in 2009 changed everything! Professionally speaking, I wasn't doing too bad back then, but my "A" game came alive over the past eight (8) years, and it was actually like an investment that split several times, and keeps paying dividends. Looking at it from that angle, it hasn't cost me a dime, and it has made me money. I would no doubt be anywhere at this level with a 270ng/dl test level, tanked thyroid, adrenal imbalances, etc.

    Sorry to divert the course a little bit, but my message to the OP: Don't take any shortcuts up front, get what's needed! If you limp in only halfway, it will just catch you later, results will be limited, costs will be greater.
    Please, no PM's posting lab results ... Let's Keep them on the Open Forum for Everyone to Comment. Feel free to PM me a link to your thread if you would like me to comment. Thanks!!


    I am not a Doctor, I only play one on T.V. Please consult your physician, or a trained-licensed physician before proceeding with any comments or suggestions posted on this or any forum.


  11. #10
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeelingLost View Post
    That would cost over 400 bucks (Trt 200 Thyroid panel 240). Pretty steep when one is getting started.
    Can you do labs through your GP and have insurance coverage it?
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  12. #11
    So treatment for high rt3 is only temporary to get the levels down? And once youíre rt3 is high youíre body canít bring it back down on its own without synthetic t3?

  13. #12
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayLay777 View Post
    So treatment for high rt3 is only temporary to get the levels down? And once you’re rt3 is high you’re body can’t bring it back down on its own without synthetic t3?
    You can bring it down on your own but from what I was reading it can take many years. If you have hypothyroidism or have good thyroid levels but aren't feeling right, have your reverse T3 checked just to make sure.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  14. #13
    Vince you said you just started taking t3 medication. Is there any side effects like nervousness or shakiness? Iím really prone to anxiety attacks and if I take cytomel I donít want to go through that

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    Here is good link on treating high reverse t3:

    https://www.restartmed.com/reverse-t3/

    Start low and go slow is what I was told and if you up your dose and start to feel hot with rapid heartbeat, go back to previous dose. Never caused me to be nervous and shaking but did feel hot and felt like my body temperature had risen.

    Iím currently on Cytomel 10 mg am and 10 mg afternoon. About time for me to up dose. RT3 dropped from 28.1 to 20.4 in one month think Iím close to normal now. Have labs & consult coming up in couple weeks so will know for sure.

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    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayLay777 View Post
    Vince you said you just started taking t3 medication. Is there any side effects like nervousness or shakiness? I’m really prone to anxiety attacks and if I take cytomel I don’t want to go through that
    I'm taking Synthroid 50 mcg and liothyronine 25 mcg (synthetic T3) first thing in the morning on an empty stomach no food for a half hour. No bad side effects so far. I believe bad side effects would be from if my free T3 levels got too high, so far so good.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  17. #16
    Taking T3 does not solve high RT3 problems... high RT3 probs are caused by low cortisol and or low ferritin (low iron) Lots of people believe that taking huge doses of T3 clears your RT3 (and it usually does, but only temporarily) Once your T3 levels re-establish normal levels then you have high RT3 again. The root cause of high RT3 needs to be fixed before you can put it behind you.

  18. #17
    If there is a difference between low testosterone and low thyroid synptoms what would they be? How would you distinguish them from one another ?

  19. #18
    Super Moderator Vettester Chris's Avatar
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    Exactly Ratbag ^^ High RT3 is due to an underlying issue, it's a natural process to converse energy and resources when something isn't right. As Ratbag mentioned, adding Cytomel T3 doesn't resolve the RT3 issue. It's not like you can override RT3 and it will just start to diminish and fixed. In the case of iron and cortisol being off, adding Cytomel will be even more problematic. FT3 is already pooling, and the traffic jam is going to compound when adding more T3.

    The dynamics of how the T4 -> T3/RT3 pathway works and operates is one of the most amazing aspects of how the body is designed to seek homeostasis. RT3 can actually be your best friend at times, trying to bypass it won't resolve the underlying problem.
    Please, no PM's posting lab results ... Let's Keep them on the Open Forum for Everyone to Comment. Feel free to PM me a link to your thread if you would like me to comment. Thanks!!


    I am not a Doctor, I only play one on T.V. Please consult your physician, or a trained-licensed physician before proceeding with any comments or suggestions posted on this or any forum.


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    JayLay from what I have experienced the symptoms are pretty much the same. Only way to know for sure is complete blood test for both thyroid and low T. Here is good explanation;
    https://www.restartmed.com/thyroid-symptoms-men/

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayLay777 View Post
    If there is a difference between low testosterone and low thyroid synptoms what would they be? How would you distinguish them from one another ?
    Did you not already state in an older thread that when you had blood work done through Defy that Dr. Saya told you that your testosterone levels are OK yet you persist that you may have low t?

    Nelson even responded to that thread and stated that your testosterone levels looked good.

    I am not trying to discourage you and I understand you want to get to the bottom of this to figure out why you are experiencing these negative symptoms but many have replied to your post telling you that your total t/ free t levels are good as they are in the higher end of the range.

    Mind you your shbg is near the high end of the range but your free t is also HIGH as oppose to LOW which happens when someones shbg is high.

  22. #21
    I am assuming it must be my thyroid then. I have not had my rt3 or antibodies tested yet for my thyroid. I have heard from a couple people on here that stated if my shbg is high then there is no way my free test can be high. My blood work shows that they can co exist though? You can have high free test even if you have high shbg?

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    Member madman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayLay777 View Post
    I am assuming it must be my thyroid then. I have not had my rt3 or antibodies tested yet for my thyroid. I have heard from a couple people on here that stated if my shbg is high then there is no way my free test can be high. My blood work shows that they can co exist though? You can have high free test even if you have high shbg?
    What assay was used for your free t?

    EQUILIBRIUM DIALYSIS is the gold standard and the assay you would want (which you may have had on previous labs), you need to look over those labs.

  24. #23
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Scroll to page 13-14 and look over Table 4: Assays For The Diagnosis Of Teststerone Deficiency and look under assay for Free TESTOSTERONE and you will see the difference in co-efficient of variation, adavantages/disadvantages between equilibrium dialysis, calculated method and direct (ultracentrifugation, analog)

    As you will see the EQUILIBRIUM DIALYSIS- co-efficent of variation for intra assay is 10% and inter assay is 6.8%

    -advantages of equilibrium dialysis - considered gold standard and has excellent sensitivity/specifity
    -disadvantages- labor intensive, low throughput



    As you will see CALCULATED METHOD- co-efficient of variation is 18-30%

    -advantages of calculated method - rapid, simple, has correlated in some series (BUT NOT ALL) well with equilibrium dialysis
    -disadvantages- relies on TT and SHBG assay accuracy, accuracy relies on equilibrium dissociation constants for binding of SHBG and albumin to testosterone, higher inter-assay variability
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by madman; 05-06-2018 at 04:17 PM.

  25. #24
    The assays used for my last two blood test with Defy were Direct. The ones used before that was the calculated method. I have noticed my free t is always on the higher end of the range whenever the direct assay is used. When the calculated method is used my free t is always on the lower end of normal. I checked and have not had the equilibrium dialysis assay yet on any of my blood test.

  26. #25
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayLay777 View Post
    The assays used for my last two blood test with Defy were Direct. The ones used before that was the calculated method. I have noticed my free t is always on the higher end of the range whenever the direct assay is used. When the calculated method is used my free t is always on the lower end of normal. I checked and have not had the equilibrium dialysis assay yet on any of my blood test.
    The direct analog is still reliable and as far as the equilibrium dialysis it is not used by most commercial labs as it is expensive/time consuming so if you were interested in getting it find out if it is offered through Labcorp.

    I live in Canada so not sure what labs in US offer the testing method.


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