What a year of exercise, changing diet, adding vit d/b12/zinc did to my T/B12/D levels

35 years old, not on TRT, did blood work last year which lead me to look into it.

So last year I posted numbers after checking my T levels (429 on 348-1197 scale, 9.27 on a 5.00-21.00) and them being low. This lead to joining the gym, increasing calories, cutting out fried stuff and cokes, a Defy preconsultation panel, a b12/vit d test, ANOTHER T level and B12 test, then taking a traveling job and letting the blood work sit and never acting upon it while I still lifted weights 3-5 times a week, and doing vitamin c/b6/d/b12 daily, then adding zinc and krill oil later last year. A year ago my body weight upon waking was 122.20-125, now it runs 138.80-140ish and around 141-142.20 when Im going to sleep.

All testing done at the same Labcorp location.

My T has went from

429 total/9.27 free 348-1197 & 5.00-21.00 3-22-17
454 total/11.3 free 348-1197 & 8.70-25.1 4-28-17
474 total/11.4 free 348-1197 & and 8.70/25.1 6-7-17
358 total/8.9 free 264-916 & 8.70/25.1 4-13-18

I tested B12 on April 28th last year, it was 264 on a 211-946 range. Got shots right after that and added oral supplement of 1000mcg, went to 394 on 211-964 on June 7th 2017, switched vitamin b12 brands, then switched again to Nutricost 2000mcg and last week it was 1137 on a 232-1245 range . Those damned things work! lol

Vitamin D was low at 28.3 on 30-100 range on April 28th 2017, was doing 2000iu of now brand D3, then switched to 4000iu, then threw that stuff out because it smelled odd, switched to another brand last year at 5000iu and last week I tested at 98.6 on the same range.

So in a year I lift weights routinely, increase calories/fats/cholesterol, increase vitamin d and b12, add zinc and other stuff and lost over 100 points over my best test. I started the gym between my first and second T tests and my numbers were trending upwards, then no blood work for 10 months and Im down 100?

Also my 12 hour fasting glucose was 104 on a 0-99 (last two were 92 and 98 last year), BUN, BUN/CREATINININE, Potassium were all high and above range. Triglycerides went up, bad cholesterol went down and has been trending downward, good cholesterol moved up 1 point, first move it's made since December 2016.

My sleep is still awful, my diet isnt great (protein bars that Im picky about on brands and ingredients, silk pea protein nut milk but was A2 chocolate milk for awhile, steak, grilled chicken, lots of peanut butter (natural with little bit of palm oil, nothing hydrogenated), bananas, a lot of chobani greek yogurt, bit of white rice etc but it's way better than it was, I cut out a ton of outright fast food but still eat a lot of fast casual, cut pretty much all fried stuff and havent had a coca cola or equivalent in 10 months or so.

Right now I aim for 2700-2800 calories a day, it was 3000ish for a bit but I pulled it back. This has been slow, last year I was at like 1400-1500, then increased to 1800, then 2000, then 2200, 2400, 2600, 2800, 3000-3100, back down to 2700-2800.

Meds: Paxil 5mg (been on it since 1999, used to be higher dose), occasional sildenafil/cialis
Supplements: 1000mg vit c in split dose, 100mg of b6, 2000mcg B12, 5000iu vit D3, 30mg zinc with copper, krill oil but this comes and goes as I feel like buying it, 6-9 grams of L-citruline malate on workout days, grass fed whey protein isolate on workout days. Tried mucana pruienes and hated how it made me feel.

A.C. thanks for posting your data effort and experience with supplementation and alternatives to TRT. The last assay of 358 was a different range so who knows the relevance to your prior numbers. You seem determined and on the right track. You are wise to serum test rather than blindly supplement as most do. Continue the trials until you discover what is personally optimum. Is there an alternative to Paxil such as SAM-e? B6 can be toxic, careful with that. A D,25-Hyroxy serum goal of 60-70 might be a safer goal. K in its various forms is often mentioned in the context of D metabolism so if you are going to continue supplementing cyanocobolomin (D3) then consider a K2 complex along side. I'm hardly a nutritional expert. Hopefully the nutritional experts here like Will Brink may contribute with better advice.

edit: An MD should be consulted for the out of range high BUN/Creatinine with consideration for your supplementation and work outs. From experience I can tell you that Vacepa and Lovaza are great for lowering triglycerides. If you can't afford those then find a good source of EPA and include it daily. I'm not fond of Krill Oil

Re-Ride said:

A.C. thanks for posting your data effort and experience with supplementation and alternatives to TRT. The last assay of 358 was a different range so who knows the relevance to your prior numbers.

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The only thing that changed was the range, exactly the same procedure in the testos assay. So you can compare numbers.

You should pay more attention to your poor sleep, that can have a big effect on testosterone. I am not sure if Paxil affects testosterone, low testosterone can make your feel depressed thus creating your need for Paxil.

I have never seen any physical activity or supplement have a substantial effect on testosterone, sure it can move up or down 50 ng/dl almost at random, but for me nothing will make a change that is substantial, meaning greater than 50%, other than prescription drugs like clomid or testosterone injections, likely hcg would also work but I have never taken that.

I have seen my Bun and Potassium be high and out of range, bun can be out of range if you are consuming too much protein, potassium could be dehydration, though both could also be kidney failure, so it's always good to ask a doctor what they really mean to you. Creatinine is a normal byproduct of physical activity because of the breakdown of creatine phosphate found in muscle. More muscle mass means that more creatinine ends up in the blood.

Higher levels of plasma creatinine or blood urea (Blood Urea Nitrogen; BUN) likely mean your kidneys aren’t filtering efficiently enough to get rid of the excess. This is also tied into eGFR and urine tests.


I am not a doctor, you should ask your doctor what it means since it gets complex and your kidneys starting to fail is very serious.

Re-Ride said:

A.C. thanks for posting your data effort and experience with supplementation and alternatives to TRT. The last assay of 358 was a different range so who knows the relevance to your prior numbers. You seem determined and on the right track. You are wise to serum test rather than blindly supplement as most do. Continue the trials until you discover what is personally optimum. Is there an alternative to Paxil such as SAM-e? B6 can be toxic, careful with that. A D,25-Hyroxy serum goal of 60-70 might be a safer goal. K in its various forms is often mentioned in the context of D metabolism so if you are going to continue supplementing cyanocobolomin (D3) then consider a K2 complex along side. I'm hardly a nutritional expert. Hopefully the nutritional experts here like Will Brink may contribute with better advice.

edit: An MD should be consulted for the out of range high BUN/Creatinine with consideration for your supplementation and work outs. From experience I can tell you that Vacepa and Lovaza are great for lowering triglycerides. If you can't afford those then find a good source of EPA and include it daily. I'm not fond of Krill Oil

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I was put on paxil for OCD, not depression, but I feel like my OCD was thrown for a loop because years before I got on Paxil I had a Dr that was basically using me as a revolving door for SSRI's. Anafranil, Luvox, Prozac, Zoloft etc. That stuff was killing me at school and making me so tired I finally just quit cold turkey. OCD ramped up like crazy so a couple years later I ended up on Paxil. The ONLY reason I am still on it, is that I cant get off of it, the withdrawal side effects are insane. I have seen it written multiple times that heroin, cigarettes and meth are easier to quit, and I believe it.

Ill have to look into the Vacepa and Lovaza. Maybe I just need to start doing more cardio again?!

There's nothing I can do about the sleep outside of a sleep study that my insurance wont pay for. I have had poor sleep since around the time I hopped on the paxil. I wake up to urinate 3-4 times a night MIN but even then I still just randomly wake up a lot. I used to take over the counter sleep meds for over 10 years but they were causing me a lot of issues, so I stopped.

I drank 17-25 oz of water before heading for bloods, so that may be the issue on the potassium, not sure how quickly it was absorbed. The BUN could be protein related, I get 130-185 grams a day, but that's nothing compared to what most serious weight lifters get. My actual creatinine level was normal. eGFR was 102, last year it was 130 and 100 in Dec 2016.

I was hoping for more results not less from lifting over time, my T level is lower than when I was not exercising and consuming fast food often on a super low calorie diet. I am pretty disappointed. I wonder if it's because Im not doing much for cardio and am running a bit of a calorie surplus?!

AlwaysCold said:

There's nothing I can do about the sleep outside of a sleep study that my insurance wont pay for. I have had poor sleep since around the time I hopped on the paxil. I wake up to urinate 3-4 times a night MIN but even then I still just randomly wake up a lot. I used to take over the counter sleep meds for over 10 years but they were causing me a lot of issues, so I stopped.

I drank 17-25 oz of water before heading for bloods, so that may be the issue on the potassium, not sure how quickly it was absorbed. The BUN could be protein related, I get 130-185 grams a day, but that's nothing compared to what most serious weight lifters get. My actual creatinine level was normal. eGFR was 102, last year it was 130 and 100 in Dec 2016.

I was hoping for more results not less from lifting over time, my T level is lower than when I was not exercising and consuming fast food often on a super low calorie diet. I am pretty disappointed. I wonder if it's because Im not doing much for cardio and am running a bit of a calorie surplus?!

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A lot depends on how far out of range your various labs are. I have had Bun and potassium be slightly out of range on the high side, once in a while I had a doctor, they weren't concerned. Hydration (water) can take many days to restore, not just a few hours, you would be well served to drink 16-30 oz of water every morning. I drink up to 32 oz first thing in the AM.

I didn't have health insurance at all for 13 years, unless you have a serous health condition, like needing a heart bypass, you can deal with finding low cost alternatives. I have even done eye surgery in Thailand, crowns [FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]/ [/FONT]periodontal scaling in Cambodia. (though there is only one place in Cambodia I would go for dental, in general they have a pretty primitive health care system)

I see Aeroflow has a Home Sleep Testing Service for $150-200, though I think it only looks for sleep apnea. I have no idea of how well their service works, maybe someone on the forum has used them ??

Only take vit D in the AM, some supplement can interfere with sleep. You can also try various supplements like melatonin, GABA, glycine before going to sleep to name a few. Also there are a lot of thread on excelmale about sleep problems.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?14319&p=103891#post103891

Just search this forum and use the tag sleep, you will see many threads that outline problems and solutions, take care and good luck.

I drink a ton of water daily, of course I try not to drink it when I wake up randomly as it will cause me to wake up even more and I woke up, got a shower and drove straight to Labcorp. I tested at 10:45 am, my tests last year were all around 10:30-11:00 because that's "my morning". Now for the last 9 months I had been waking up at around 8:30-10:00 but currently it's closer to 11:00-12:00 more often than not.

I too did not have health insurance for a similar time, got it through work and it was 100% garbage, pays for nothing unless the high deductible is met, so it's useless, it cancels at the end of the month. I dont know about flying to Thailand for surgeries lol, seems like it would cost so much in travel fees, plus the whole having surgery done in a third world type of country thing, eeeek. I hear people go to Turkey for hair transplants! So you just hopped on a plane and headed to another country and did EYE surgery? Good lord! lol

The local place will do a home sleep study for $200 but said it's pretty limited on information and highly recommended the come in and sleep visit which runs $700-$900 depending on what you do.

Melatonin is a no go for me, a lot of things are while on the paxil. I tried it, had horrible results. Interestingly enough in that thread that guy mentioned his hematocrit runs 48-50 before TRT, Im in the same boat, lowest it has been is 47, but it's been 49.xx the other times, which Dr Saya mentioned on one my threads last year points towards sleep apnea. I just cant imagine paying THOUSANDS for a sleep study and cpap and seeing zero results like with a lot of things in the medical system.

Decided to try again last Friday 4-27-18. I pretty much took off from lifting any real weight, mostly light cardio, wanted to see if things were a fluke. Also did A1C to put any fears of my high resting glucose at ease




Testosterone, Serum 417 ng/dL (264-916)
Free Testosterone(Direct) 10.4 pg/mL (8.7-25.1)
LH 4.7 mIU/mL (1.7-8.6)
FSH 2.7 mIU/mL (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol, Sensitive 13.4 pg/mL (8.0-35.0)
A1C 5.0 (down from 5.3 in December 2016)


So my total was up 59 over the previous week but still lower than all tests last year, free was up like 1.5 points but still lower than most of my tests last year. Only reference point I have for LH, FSH and Estradiol is one test a year ago. LH was 3.6, FSH was the same 2.7 and Estradiol was 14.3.

Have you ever had a full thyroid panel done? Poor sleep is a symptom of hypothyroidsm. Here is a good link for test and the normal ranges vs OPTIMAL ranges
https://www.restartmed.com/normal-thyroid-levels/

Also, low thyroid levels and low testerone symptoms very similar.

https://www.restartmed.com/thyroid-symptoms-men/

Wish I’d known that 3 years ago when I was tested for low T.

The only thyroid I did was this last year on 4-27-17


TSH 1.990 uIU/mL (0.450 - 4.500)
Thyroxine (T4) 7.9 ug/dL (4.5 - 12.0)
T3 Uptake 29% (24 - 39)
Free Thyroxine Index 2.3 (1.2 - 4.9)

and I got TSH on my testosterone panel a few weeks ago on 4-13-18

TSH - 2.870 uIU/mL (0.450 - 4.500)

Still middle of range but below the optimal range on that website you posted. No idea what the rest of the numbers mean, maybe I should look into this more?

Im assuming the estradiol is low because the T is still towards the bottom of the range?

I would get proper and complete thyroid test done and go from there. What test you had a year ago doesn’t matter. Be sure & get Reverse T3 along with T3 & T4 at a min.

Well my only comparisons are my TSH, which has risen, oddly at a time when my T has lowered. Connection?! MY LH is slightly higher this year than last year, FSH is the same.

I had trouble figuring out what thyroid tests to run last time when looking around on lifeextension, they have a ton of differently worded thyroid panels and individual tests.

One more GREAT thyroid site that you need to look around in...
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/what-labs.html
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/optimal-labs.html

Interesting stuff in those links, it's still hard to read and understand thyroid stuff. Way too much "T3, T4, total T4, reverse T3, TPO antibodies", I mean it's A LOT of stuff lol. I guess a better question is what causes thyroid issues, is it from lower t, does it CAUSE lower t, etc.