1. #1

    New, with some newly found deficiencies

    Hi all. I'm in my late 20s, and have struggled for a while. I've always had a decent natural T, avg of 700. Shbg is usually 50, but has been normal at 35.

    I'm enrolled with Defy, and have continued self testing, and finally found a string of deficiencies after years of testing.

    L-Threonine (amino acid profile) Below range
    Histamine- Very high, over range
    Copper RBC-right on the border low
    Serum copper was low
    Zinc RBC normal
    Reverse t3- over range (28)

    I really don't know what direction to turn. My endocrinologist pushes me to a psychiatrist. Defy pushes all the hormone stuff. And I'm doing all of this bio self testing, and thinking of going the herb route through the CDnuts protocol.

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  3. #2
    Stick with Defy they know what to do. With high RT3 you have a thyroid issue. Either low cortisol or low ferritin issue unless you are sick. Avoid Endocrinologists and herbs.

  4. #3
    Member Sean Mosher's Avatar
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    Agree with the above.
    High RT3 is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed.

  5. #4
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    Agree with Sean and ragbag. Your high RT3 needs to be resolved. Defy is your best bet unless you want to take an anxiety med. Here is a good resource:
    https://www.restartmed.com/normal-thyroid-levels/

  6. #5
    High rT3 blocks fT3 from entering your cells and slows down all processes, basically it's has the same effects as low fT3 thyroid hormones. You guessed it, you're hypothyroid. Most herbs and endocrinologists can't fix this for you, sad indeed.

  7. #6
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    I know that herbs won't lower rt3. Tons of people are hypothyroid, but you still see them pursuing and living a normal life. I guess they dont feel zombified. Most of my symptoms and lifestyle are similar to PFS, and that's why I mention herbs as that group has found success.

    I'm 7 months in with Defy, and still waiting on my second appointment. Rt3 was already high the first time. Felt awful on the first protocol. Its just another doctor bill on top of my other doctor bills, which will keep hindering me from moving on in the future, if I ever get passed this. Kiss my whole 20s goodbye. All this medical stuff is just a fraction of what I've been through.

    I even went way over the top and ordered more in depth testing for Defy to work with. All out of pocket.

  8. #7
    The only test you paid for that is worth anything is the RT3 and that one is pretty worthless as you did it as it has to be taken with the whole panel of Thyroid tests and not singly....FT3, FT4, TSH, Antibodies, Reverse T3. Then you don't really divulge what treatment youre undergoign with Defy, either, so pretty tough to have any insight with what you're giving; post your labs with lab ranges.

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    Ive had nearly every common and recommended test done-e2, e3 dht, preg, prog, saliva cortisol, zinc rbc, etc. I can post, it will take a few hours to gather all.

    I didnt want to give my protocol out of respect for Defy, but if you guys want to know. Dhea every morning. Dhea/preg at night. Clomid once a week. Half of an AI once a week. Stinging nettle and vit d every day.

  10. #9
    Ferritin is necessary with a high RT3... re post #2

    What is PFS?

    No one waits for an appointment with Defy, you are supposed to ask for one if you want one.

    Sure lots of peeps live with hypothyroidism, but why if you don't have to? You have to be your own health advocate. Write up a list so you can discuss this with your Defy MD next time you speak with them. Remember hypothyroidism and Low T have very similar symptoms. So if you have both it's a double whammy... and it's clear you are hypothyroid. You have had a cortisol saliva test so all that's next is ferritin and a few more labs before the MD can determine the correct meds for your hypothyroidism

  11. #10
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    The ferritin from a few years ago, when I still felt bad:
    Ferritin 124 ng/ml (18-464)
    Iron 174 (37-181)
    Iron saturation 58% (15-55)
    Total iron binding capacity 302 (261-464)

    PFS is post finasteride syndrome. Its usually the after effects of a hair loss drug.

  12. #11
    You are not being clear on this info. Are you saying you are PFS? Meaning that you used to take Finnistride? or are you say your current symptoms are only similar to PFS?

    Old Irons labs are not helpful. You would have to have newer labs as Ferritin can quickly change.

    Did Defy set your protocol of clomid once per week? It seems unusual.

    Obviously you have a thyroid problem, therefore it would be prudent to correct that before you move on and make incorrect assumptions.

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    I'm saying that my symptoms match those with PFS. Like I said there's people with thyroid problems and depression that live normal lives w/o second thought. I gave up on dating, and haven't even been on a date in 7-8 years.

    Pre Defy labs I pulled myself.
    Saliva Cortisol
    -8am .309
    -Noon .077
    -4pm .056
    -Midnight .014
    Pregenolone 89 <151
    DHT 61 30-85
    E2 sensitive 16.7
    Progesterone .3 0-.5
    Tsh 1.51
    Ft3 2.8 (2-4.4)
    Ft4 1.24 (.82-1.77)
    Rev t3 21

  14. #13
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    Post Defy Labs
    T 1059
    Direct free T 28 (9-26)
    E2 29
    SHBG 50
    DHEA 662 (138-475)
    Prolactin 9.3 (4-15)
    IGF-1 193 (98-282)
    Ft4 1.38 (.82-1.77)
    Ft3 3.2 (2-4.4)
    Rt3 28

  15. #14
    You keep repeating yourself about thyroid and depression problems leading a normal life. People do not live normal lives if their thyroid has problems. They have plenty of issues that are obviously not apparent to you. If dealing with this is too much for you then move on, we won't lose sleep over it. If you want help at least try to make an effort. Your cortisol labs have no ranges... it's pretty much useless info without them.

  16. #15
    Super Moderator Vettester Chris's Avatar
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    There's obviously some variance between the two sets of labs (pre & post Defy), with a bump in FT3 and RT3. Just curious, have you ran any antibody labs for autoimmune (TPO & TgAb)? The RT3 thing can be as simple as the flu /viral intrusion, or as complex as a combination of imbalances, emotional stress, infection or injury. Any situation needed to truly conserve energy and ATP synthesis.

    In cases like low iron & ferritin, the problem then becomes a situation of NOT being able to get T3 transported to the cells adequately. This causes T3 to build up, or 'pool', and yes that triggers the body to convert a higher yield of RT3 from T4.

    As stated above, your reference ranges on the cortisol tests are actually quite important for the talking points on your circadian profile. Depending on how the profile shapes out you might also talk with Dr. Saya about keeping the DHEA regiment to the PM (after 6:00 PM).
    Please, no PM's posting lab results ... Let's Keep them on the Open Forum for Everyone to Comment. Feel free to PM me a link to your thread if you would like me to comment. Thanks!!


    I am not a Doctor, I only play one on T.V. Please consult your physician, or a trained-licensed physician before proceeding with any comments or suggestions posted on this or any forum.


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    Cortisol (pre defy)
    8 am .309 (.025-.600)
    Noon .077 (.010-.330)
    4pm .056 (.010-.200)
    Late night .014 (.010-.090)

  18. #17
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    I had normal TPO and TGab a few years ago. If anything needs to be retested, let me know. In the case of ferritin, that was a test I requested (aka twisted the doctors arm to get). If it was normal, I moved on to something else.

    I was sick about 2 months to these tests. I lost my job, and I could barely stay awake to even go apply for jobs. I'm always under stress. I lost everything as an effect of the recession. I had extreme brain fog, anxiety, and derealization my last year in school. Couldn't work or function a few years after school.

    I still have my odd days or even just parts of the day. Ill get fog or anxiety and wonder how I could hide it from a girlfriend or wife.

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