How lowering Test dosage increase my TT, Low SHBG guys this is for you, the less is the better!

Vestpocket said:

I agree with the bulk of the original poster's post, but one thing is not true. With low SHBG, testosterone will NOT lower SHBG further. In fact, for higher doses of testosterone, due to excess estradiol, SHBG will usually go up 1-3 nmol/L from the baseline.

In my case, it will start around 11-13 at low T doses, and go from 13-17 for high doses.

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madman said:

Sure when one is on trt there will be positive changes in body composition (increase muscle tissue -actin/myosin, intra- cellular water-due to increased glycogen storage) and of course extra-cellular water due to water retention from elevated e2 (unless on is using an aromatase inhibitor).

The body composition changes on trt whether one has mid-normal physiological levels (total t/free t) or high-normal physiological levels (total t/free t) or even slightly above the top end of the physiological range will be no where comparable to one using steroid doses to attain supra-physiological levels.

On average most on trt are using any where from 100-150 mg/week of testosterone whether injected once weekly or split up into more frequent injections as in every 3.5 days (common trt), M/W/F, EOD or daily depending on ones shbg among other things.

Most men injecting 100 mg/week will attain t levels in the mid-normal range where as others may end up attaining high-normal t levels and of course some men that are aiming for t levels on the higher end of the physiological range are usually injecting 120-150 mg/week and even than 150 mg/week will put most in the high end or slightly over.

Sure there are a small percentage of men that need 200 mg/week on trt but it is rare and uncommon as 200 mg/week would put most mens levels into the higher supra-physiological range as in 1800 + ng/dl.

Of course each individual responds differently to testosterone due to ones shbg/sensitivity of the AR (androgen receptor)/polymorphism of the AR and CAG repeat lengths (short/long) and lastly regarding the negative effects one may encounter due to testosterones metabolites estradiol/dht are due to genetics as some experience sides even using lower trt doses and other can use higher doses before negative sides manifest.

One will definitely notice improvements in muscle gains/strength/recovery and fat loss on trt especially if diet/training are in check but big increase in muscle/strength are only seen when ones testosterone levels are in the higher supra-physiological range as in 2000-5000 ng/dl and usually requires at a minimum of 250 mg-600 mg/week of testosterone.

Mind you there are some that would consider 200 mg/week a low dose steroid cycle and there is a good percentage of men blessed with good genetics that will gain a lot of muscle on such dose.

I would say most on trt that are into weight training and have a good diet/training protocol can meake good gains in muscle/strength but to really see benefits one would need to blast/cruise which some choose to do or use high dosages of testosterone to attain higher supra-physiological levels as in many of the studies big gains in muscle mass are attained using 300-600 mg/week.

Trt doses 100-150 mg/week will result in muscle gains but not as much as one using high doses 300-600 mg/week.

Higher testosterone doses which result in supra-physiological testosterone levels (total t and higher free t) will cause much better gains in muscle/strength up to a point where the negatives (side effects) will outweigh the positive effects of the hormone and its metabolites.

Even than also due understand that even though one will build overall muscle mass faster when using supra-physiological doses of testosterone the quantity of gains (intra and extra cellular water) will be noticed right away and the quality of gains (actin/myosin) will be faster than when one has average natural testosterone levels but even on steroids gains in actin/myosin (muscle tissue) still takes time.

Always found it humorous when guys use steroids (cycling/blasting and cruising) and gain quite a large amount of muscle when in reality sure they have increased pure muscle gains in new tissue (actin/myosin) but atleast 1/2 -3/4 of their gains is from increased water weight (intra-cellular) due to increased glycogen storage and (extra-cellular) due to excess e2 which one pisses out when ones testosterone levels return to baseline after the cycle. Than the goal is pct if cycling to try and attain most of the muscle tissue or cruising back on lower doses (whether on trt or blasting/cruising) to keep the new gains (actin/myosin).

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Gianluca said:

I have been trying everyday (ED) injection for the past 4/5 months, wow how the time goes by, Doc put me on 0,13ml daily, about 200mg weekly which brought my FT to 34 and my TT to 900, on the last consult with Doc we agreed to try lower it to 0,1ml daily, now my TT is at 940 and still laughing, my FT is at 31.8 Hemoglobin went from 17.7 to 16.7, nice!

During the first 2/3 weeks when I lowered the dose I experienced detoxification, I was loosing water and bloating, way less acne on my face and body, my Systolic BP drop from 135/45 to 124 I was sleeping better and more important much less shortness of breath fatigue when doing resistance training, I was winning, despite the fact that for about 3 weeks I was literally feeling down, I could have trouble finding the motivation to get up from bed in the am, really. After 3 weeks I think everything stabilized and motivation sex drive slowly were showing up again, I think it took a good 8 weeks for these to come back, although already after 3 weeks I would gain again water, bloating, HBP, red bloated face and fatigue, shortness of breath when exercising.

My take on it and advise for low SHBG guy and non:

the more Test dose you will use the more you will push down your SHBG further elevating FT, and Free Estradiol above normal!! of course your TT FT ratio will just go messed up

I have studied nutrition for the past year and something taught in nutrition regarding Vitamins and Minerals is that the more dose you use the less the body will absorb and the more it will excrete, I have started thinking the same way for TRT, look how my FT went to 34 on 0.13ml daily and to 31.8 on 0.1ml daily, that is 140mg weekly, and still too much!

This is my believe, not sure if there is any scientific evidence or it make sense:

Using too much testosterone for long time, TRT, will eventually cause a down regulation of T receptor, as you pushing it in the body it will say: this is too much, I do not need it so down regulation, conversion to other metabolize like E2, DHT occur along with extra work for Liver and Kidneys, elevated H&H, over retention of water HBP, low HDL, you can get away with it for short period not for a life

when we do small little dosages, everyday just what the body, your body, really needs to function properly I think T receptor may do the opposite and up regulate saying hey we need Testosterone and the body will absorb most of it, Easy on Kidneys and any other side effect no longer needed

So my suggestion for low SHBG guys and non is : Daily small injections, start really low and wait fully 8 weeks before to come to a conclusion about your protocol, I'm really planing to lower my actual 20mg daily to 15mg untill my FT is about 25 see how things go

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Omi7276 said:

This is absolutely true.
The TRT concept is very much strained between 2 communities ( Hypogonadal men and other being Bodybuilders turning to trt )
Bodybuilders who switch to trt will have most issues coz they have already crushed their SHBG and even 100 mg per week is counterproductive for them .

Only two ways to deal with low SHBG
Either take super low dose everyday ( I took 5 mg test E Everyday and goty labs in mid normal range) OR Use supraphysiological doses (I took like 400g per week, split EOD) . Problem with supraphysiological dose is age related( higher the age, more side effects) . Low dose might not amp up bodybuilders who were used to the rush on high doses .

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