Makeshift TRT

Astrox · Apr 11, 2018

Hi guys

33 year old male, been on TRT for a year in the form of tostran gel. Although the sweet spot for me is 100mg (10 pumps per day), this is causing a drastic increase in red cell count/heamoglobin etc, and I am in danger of being pulled off of it all together. Without TRT my levels drop to around 3.0-7.0 nmol/L. Not good.

I felt the best blood level of testosterone for me is around 15 nmol/L which is perfectly fair and within TRT range. It's an annoying situation, but is what it is. Blood donation/pulling even clinically - is out of the question. I've asked.

Whilst I understand any androgen will increase/impact cell count, I have a few questions. Should I be pulled off TRT and no longer able to obtain it, will a low dose of 4-Andro be able to keep my Testosterone levels within TRT ranges for a few months st least? Just to get by? I'd still have access to blood monitoring.

I have seen a suggestion that there are logs of guys using 4-andro as a makeshift TRT, but can't seem to find them. I understand 4-andro converts to testosterone through a 2 step conversion. Probably not as potent as the real thing, but enough to get by on?

Also I wonder if the slower conversion process will slow RBC increase. I am a great absorber to gel, my skin literally drinks it. Wondering if even splitting a dose of the gel to 4 morning 4 evening might help?

Again just to get by on if the gel is l
Pulled.

Thoughts?

Astro

Systemlord · Apr 11, 2018

I think what you really need is to post your labs and perhaps consider injectable testosterone and inject micro doses multiple time per week, this might help with RBC.

As far as 4-andro, don't fall for scams, if the stuff actually worked we wouldn't be spending thousands on TRT.

Astrox · Apr 11, 2018

Hey man

Very valid point. Certainly one I'm willing to accept.

I guess I'm merely trying to explore any alternatives, especially since I've had a taste of what TRT can do for me. Having said that I know a stroke or heart attack is no fun either. Like I said it's a rubbish situation. I do train, so I need those levels in balance.

Unfortunately I don't have access to my blood work on TRT, as it is done through the main health system in the UK.

Cause of my low testosterone isolated/put down to low LH Output. Everything else appears ok - MRI scan shows no abnormalities. Never used drugs/steroids.

CoastWatcher · Apr 11, 2018

Is private care something you can consider? We can refer you if it's a possibility.

Astrox · Apr 12, 2018

Hey Man

It's something that has crossed my mind. Thing is, because there are additional issues with blood count - I'm not sure even a private TRT service would touch me - since a general rule of thumb is when levels surpass 52%.

Those Heamoglobin levels really are on the high side, even without TRT. In fact a year before starting TRT it's already at 178 and RBC at 5.88. That's nearing asprin territory. It's not much more on TRT. I know it fluctuates between 178-181 put it that way. By which time I'm either put on asprin or dropped on the dosage.

I do have a complete old set of labs I had done privately in 2016 to show that - pre TRT. I posted them yesterday, but decided to delete as I figure they are of little benefit as they are not TRT blood work.

The gentleman suggests asking for micro doses of TRT, but that's not happening anytime soon - my consultant has more or less written a letter saying there is nothing more she can do. She won't entertain injections because of the RBC.

Ironically I was in fantastic shape. Not the tallest of guys at 5ft'6, but held a lot of muscle considering the circumstances -weighing in at an in shape 94.6kg. TRT sky rockets my gains. Within 3 months of being on it I had gained a stone and a half.

Of course I'd pick feeling well over any muscle gains, but the point is if the RBC wasnt an issue I'd be laughing (not to mention the huge relief I experienced in regards to symptom control at that dose).

CoastWatcher · Apr 12, 2018

Astrox said:
Hey Man

It's something that has crossed my mind. Thing is, because there are additional issues with blood count - I'm not sure even a private TRT service would touch me - since a general rule of thumb is when levels surpass 52%.

Those Heamoglobin levels really are on the high side, even without TRT. In fact a year before starting TRT it's already at 178 and RBC at 5.88. That's nearing asprin territory. It's not much more on TRT. I know it fluctuates between 178-181 put it that way. By which time I'm either put on asprin or dropped on the dosage.

I do have a complete old set of labs I had done privately in 2016 to show that - pre TRT. I posted them yesterday, but decided to delete as I figure they are of little benefit as they are not TRT blood work.

The gentleman suggests asking for micro doses of TRT, but that's not happening anytime soon - my consultant has more or less written a letter saying there is nothing more she can do. She won't entertain injections because of the RBC.

Ironically I was in fantastic shape. Not the tallest of guys at 5ft'6, but held a lot of muscle considering the circumstances -weighing in at an in shape 94.6kg. TRT sky rockets my gains. Within 3 months of being on it I had gained a stone and a half.

Of course I'd pick feeling well over any muscle gains, but the point is if the RBC wasnt an issue I'd be laughing (not to mention the huge relief I experienced in regards to symptom control at that dose).

Where in the UK do you live?

Astrox · Apr 15, 2018

Here's a question. Does actual DHT stimulate red cell production at the same level and speed as Testosterone?

Makeshift TRT

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