First Test C + HCG Dosage Input

Vince · Mar 3, 2018

I do have a good buddy of mine when he was 62 now he's 65, was tired all the time. His doctor thought he may have low testosterone, he is very slim and has no belly, he's on blood pressure meds and also type 2 diabetic. His natural level of total testosterone was above 1000, he figure out that the reason he was tired all the time was from working 3rd Shift.

radiationkillsbirds · Mar 7, 2018

Vince said:
I do have a good buddy of mine when he was 62 now he's 65, was tired all the time. His doctor thought he may have low testosterone, he is very slim and has no belly, he's on blood pressure meds and also type 2 diabetic. His natural level of total testosterone was above 1000, he figure out that the reason he was tired all the time was from working 3rd Shift.

That's a great story, and a good point. But my sleep is pretty immaculate. 8-10hrs a night, solid. But I wake up every morning feeling less rested than when I went to bed.

radiationkillsbirds · Mar 7, 2018

I am out of the states at the moment for work, but I will check in with him when I get back to the north-east later this year.

Until then I'm going to start this cycle in a few days and just trying to do last minute math to make sure I have what I need, do it in as safe a way as possible, with the right dosage, and right state of mind.

Doctors have been a real time and energy and money-suck in my past experiences, so I'm not exactly looking for them as having the solution. TBH, you don't have to agree with me there, but my experiences and yours may vary. When you have low T and all the symptoms but all your Dr's are telling you that you are okay, there's something seriously institutionally wrong with the state of mens hormonal health in the U.S.

CoastWatcher said:
Dr. Michael Rotman in New York is a member of our community and does, indeed, prescribe HCG as part of TRT protocols. http://www.michaelrotmanurology.com

He answers questions here faithfully. You should consider consulting him. https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?9502-Ask-The-Urologist-Anything-(Dr-Michael-Rotman)

radiationkillsbirds · Mar 7, 2018

This helps. Thanks. It's right along the lines of what I'm reading and seeing.

at15 said:
300 per week is a great dose to balance performance, health, and sides. I've done it many times. Can still make great gains. Ill do 150 mg twice per week along with 100-150 iu hcg daily. No AI of course if you want to healthy!! Must maintain elasticity in your coronary arteries. That estrogen at 50-60 is saving your life. I feel amazing there, only downside is your midsection might not be quite as tight but strict diet can offset that a lot.

radiationkillsbirds · Mar 7, 2018

In general, I'm just glad I started a debate about this among you guys. You are all obviously very passionate about this.

As am I. So I'm going to go ahead and start a mild test c + hcg cycle, "cycle", whatever you want to call it or label it, TRT, AAS, whatever you want to call it, but that's where I'm currently at.

If I can maintain fertility/reproductive healthy while being on Test C, great. If not, then at least my PCT will be in line solid.

At the moment, I have to try something, because somethings gotta change.

Blood-work taken pre, will take more in a few weeks, and yet more in a month or more.

JQ88 · Mar 7, 2018

I run 300/wk, but daily injections.

42mg daily.

I barely need any AI. Every time I think I need it and take it I drop my e too low.

Very excited for labs.

I feel amazing.

JQ88 · Mar 7, 2018

At15 what were your numbers on this Protocol?

liftingheavy220 · Mar 7, 2018

at15 said:
your on a mild cycle right now like 90% of this forum. You stated your trough is 1100-1200 not even close to trt. You need to maintain 600-900, you dont go supraphysiological for even one moment. Of course your gonna feel great on a mild blast year round.

That’s absurd, the Mayo Clinic reference range is 300-1,200 ng/dL. 1200 is still within what can be natural for a “young healthy male”.

Cjh4811 · Mar 7, 2018

Radiationkillsbirds...I would start with 100 mg a week split in to two 50 mg doses and do 500iu HCG 2-3 times a week plus clomid. You don’t need crazy high clomid doses. Spermatogenesis can be achieved with doses as low as 50mg/day. Your receptors will most likely be very responsive since you’ve been off for a while. It’s easier to increase little by little instead of starting higher and waiting for things to equalize if it’s too much. Having a low baseline you will see and feel results. It’ll be easier to keep E levels at bay as well. You can pump test all you want but everyone has a threshold where you go from optimum to counter productive quickly. I’ve cycled for years in the past all the way up to 600mg/week of test and it was a waste. I’ve been on pro lifting teams and I am a lifetime martial artist. I have access to all the advice I need between doctors and friends. There’s more than one way to skin a cat...just do it carefully. I came off everything for 9 months and then started HRT on a similar protocol. My baseline T was 72. Now I’m at 1067 and have a baby due in September. To be honest I feel great! The sides from higher doses are not there and things are very manageable. The goal is to take the minimum to achieve the maximum. Keep in mind the overall well being of your body. Rome was not built in a day. You don’t need to be in the 1000’s to feel great and have a strong libido...although with this combo I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re in the 900’s+ range. Smaller more frequent doses can help to maintain more stable levels and has a more concentrating effect. I understand how it feels to be less of a man and want the results fast and see the changes. I’ve learned from years of abuse and damage that slow and steady with labs as you go and you get dialed in within 2-3 months. Good luck brotha.

radiationkillsbirds · Mar 7, 2018

I love this. Thanks. Exactly what I was hoping for.

I will do my best and post updates and stay within reason. Like you said, Rome wasn't built in a day, and I'm definitely going to get dialed in right and go based off of how I feel + how the blood work looks.

At the end of the day, I'm really feeling optimistic about this and hope that my 4x/wk workout + T therapy can have me back in the Dojo, which is where I really want to be.

Cjh4811 said:
Radiationkillsbirds...I would start with 100 mg a week split in to two 50 mg doses and do 500iu HCG 2-3 times a week plus clomid. You don’t need crazy high clomid doses. Spermatogenesis can be achieved with doses as low as 50mg/day. Your receptors will most likely be very responsive since you’ve been off for a while. It’s easier to increase little by little instead of starting higher and waiting for things to equalize if it’s too much. Having a low baseline you will see and feel results. It’ll be easier to keep E levels at bay as well. You can pump test all you want but everyone has a threshold where you go from optimum to counter productive quickly. I’ve cycled for years in the past all the way up to 600mg/week of test and it was a waste. I’ve been on pro lifting teams and I am a lifetime martial artist. I have access to all the advice I need between doctors and friends. There’s more than one way to skin a cat...just do it carefully. I came off everything for 9 months and then started HRT on a similar protocol. My baseline T was 72. Now I’m at 1067 and have a baby due in September. To be honest I feel great! The sides from higher doses are not there and things are very manageable. The goal is to take the minimum to achieve the maximum. Keep in mind the overall well being of your body. Rome was not built in a day. You don’t need to be in the 1000’s to feel great and have a strong libido...although with this combo I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re in the 900’s+ range. Smaller more frequent doses can help to maintain more stable levels and has a more concentrating effect. I understand how it feels to be less of a man and want the results fast and see the changes. I’ve learned from years of abuse and damage that slow and steady with labs as you go and you get dialed in within 2-3 months. Good luck brotha.

Saxon · Mar 7, 2018

JQ88 said:
I barely need any AI. Every time I think I need it and take it I drop my e too low.

It took my a long time to realize that everything felt better with no AI. Estrogen does climb with increased testosterone but estrogen is not the enemy unless it's actually causing issues. Guys that run higher levels of test are going to have higher levels of estrogen as a result and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Crashed E is a lot worse than high E in my experience.

Cjh4811 · Mar 7, 2018

+1 on that Saxon. Labs are key...estrogen is very important...too little can cause heart issue and joint pain just for starters. Let us know how it goes Radiation. If you have quality meds then you’ll be up and running in a few weeks. Just be patient and health conscious.

Cjh4811 · Mar 7, 2018

On a final note...Ego and pride WILL cloud judgement! Don’t take things too seriously...don’t obsess...it’s easy to find a solution...it’s even easier to make something worse! Be humble and grateful. Life is too short. Run the marathon not the sprint and soon enough you’ll get there I promise you. Take what you learn and toss it around. Try what you like and discard the rest. Learn from mistakes...yours and ours. It may seem hopeless but the hormone game is just as simple as it can be complicated in many ways. Baby steps...

radiationkillsbirds · Mar 7, 2018

Oh, I work with data professionally, so you're going to see a whole lot of it hopefully.

Thanks.

Will keep you guys updated.

Cjh4811 said:
+1 on that Saxon. Labs are key...estrogen is very important...too little can cause heart issue and joint pain just for starters. Let us know how it goes Radiation. If you have quality meds then you’ll be up and running in a few weeks. Just be patient and health conscious.

radiationkillsbirds · Mar 7, 2018

Will do, I appreciate everyone's opinion on this.

One day at a time, and bloodwork every few weeks will keep me grounded.

Cjh4811 said:
On a final note...Ego and pride WILL cloud judgement! Don’t take things too seriously...don’t obsess...it’s easy to find a solution...it’s even easier to make something worse! Be humble and grateful. Life is too short. Run the marathon not the sprint and soon enough you’ll get there I promise you. Take what you learn and toss it around. Try what you like and discard the rest. Learn from mistakes...yours and ours. It may seem hopeless but the hormone game is just as simple as it can be complicated in many ways. Baby steps...

WillHouston · Mar 8, 2018

Question: I watched a video with our moderator, demonstrating HCG in combination with Testosterone as one SQ injection. This is a combination of a water base and an oil base medication. Has anyone experienced high inflammatory response to mixing a water base with an oil base for SQ or IM injection?

Dr Justin Saya MD · Mar 8, 2018

WillHouston said:
Question: I watched a video with our moderator, demonstrating HCG in combination with Testosterone as one SQ injection. This is a combination of a water base and an oil base medication. Has anyone experienced high inflammatory response to mixing a water base with an oil base for SQ or IM injection?

Yes some patients get more PIP (post-injection pain) with this technique, whereas some do just fine. Everyone is different and only way to know for sure is to try if that technique interests you. A word of caution is to NOT prefill and store multiple syringes in that manner...draw and inject immediately.

Cjh4811 · Mar 8, 2018

I’ve done several injections combining hcg and test in an insulin syringe with a 5/16” 29g needle and go straight into my delts. Other than some minor tenderness at the injection spot I’ve not had any issues.

Re-Ride · Mar 9, 2018

Birds-dropping-from-sky-guy, You were last on 50 mg per week? Why not try 100 per week first for a few weeks then slowly increase? I support self guided care where no qualified MD guided care is possible and when self care aligns with best practices such as baseline labs and slowly working up. One is mistaken if he thinks he can hit hard from the starting line and get both fast results and a stable health-wellness benefit. How often do you plan to inject? If less than twice a week knowing your SHBG ahead of time can help with protocol design. If you can't get SHBG then every other day with an insulin syringe will likely get you feeling well fairly quickly. After 8 weeks you could try twice weekly and see how that's tolerated. With the hCG 2-3x weekly works well for many in doses of 200 to 500 iu. This approach reduces the odds of side effects while increasing greatly the chance for satisfaction and success.

radiationkillsbirds · Mar 14, 2018

Will be getting fresh blood work done next week, and starting the following week.

Currently thinking 250iu-hcg + 100mg-test-cyp e3d, with Arimidex maybe, if needed.

First Test C + HCG Dosage Input

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