7 months TRT, noticing dramatic progress in the gym

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I thought as much Mountain Man, it's probably better that there isn't another way than real discipline.
One of my friends recently suggested I switch to StrongLift routine. I feel like my routine is working right now but I think this StrongLift guy has a lot of great advice I wasn't taking to heart when I heard it elsewhere.

For example I need to get a full night of sleep, I tend to stay up too late and that is likely messing up my recovery.
 
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I thought as much Mountain Man, it's probably better that there isn't another way than real discipline.
One of my friends recently suggested I switch to StrongLift routine. I feel like my routine is working right now but I think this StrongLift guy has a lot of great advice I wasn't taking to heart when I heard it elsewhere.

For example I need to get a full night of sleep, I tend to stay up too late and that is likely messing up my recovery.

Sleep is probably the number one thing you can do to get anabolic. I think almost any routine will work if you work it hard and consistently, especially if your diet is clean and you get sleep regularly. As far a discipline, I believe you are correct. It can take years to get where you want to be. A lot of people say, “I'd do anything to look like thatwhen they see a guy with a lot of muscle and ripped. Would they really? I think not. There are no shortcuts, not even TRT. TRT gives you a fighting chance, but you have to do the fighting yourself.
 

Mad City Dad

New Member
Hey there Busgalloway,
Yes, in order to gain muscle mass you must eat a lot more, but eat clean. If you do that, and avoid a "dirty bulk" you can indeed gain muscle and cut fat at the same time. Especially while your T levels are optimal (TRT). Remember T both burns fat AND builds muscle. I eat 3400-3600 calories a day, about 40-40-20 split on macros. 6 meals a day. Workout 5 days a week, three with my trainer, 2 with a group of guys at the gym. I would be happy to share all my tips if you want anything more. I tend to "preach the gospel" of TRT to older men especially (not sure how old you are, but I'm almost 56 and in the best shape of my life!).
Steve
PS Since I' doing a clean bulk, as I am still putting onmuscle for a bodybuilding show this fall, I do little to no cardio.
 

Mad City Dad

New Member
Ero,
What are your total and free T levels? If optimal (ie total around 1000) you are "primed" to build muscle. But you can take all the T you want and not gain much muscle if you don't work out HARD, eat right and get lots of rest. Are you doing all of that?
Steve

Interesting how we are all different. TRT does nothing for me in the way of putting on muscle or burning fat, but that's probably because of my very low SHBG. I sure wish it did those things for me, but its not in the cards.
 

Mad City Dad

New Member
My dose is 160mg of test cyp per week (split to 80 twice a week). My total T hovers around 900-1050. I take no AI. My sensitive estradial is usually around 45.
 

Mad City Dad

New Member
Hey Mountain Man,
I respectfully disagree that you can't cut and gain at the same time. Actually, we are probably saying the same thing but in a different way. You mention "recomp" when your body is changing composition, while staying the same weight. If this is in a positive direction, you are gaining muscle mass and losing fat. So if a person weighs, for example, 200lbs, and is 30% body fat, and starts working out and 6 months later still weighs 200lbs but is now 15% bodyfat, what has happened? They have gained muscle and cut fat at the same time. All with out changing weight. So they have gained and cut at the same time.
Steve

I don't think you can get mass and cut at the same time with anything. I've been training since 1967 and have never been able to combine these two. It's always been one or the other. My weight was the same for a long time on TRT, with a recomp going on. I got a lot more muscular during this time. No one noticed anything except my wife. She was the only one, as I have always trained alone at home. At my age, the look I am going for is best callled secretly swole. I don't hang out, try to impress anybody. I just want to know that I can take my shirt off and people are shocked. Happens in the summer all the time, and my wife thinks it's hilarious.

I think slow progress and training for longevity is the way to go. It is incredibly hard to put on 5 lbs of muscle while dropping a few percent body fat, but the results can be pretty dramatic.

ERO, are you working out hard enough? What's your age and your workout routine like?
 

Mad City Dad

New Member
Great progress you have made as well. Getting your BF down to 10% is no easy feat, while increasing muscle. I'm not quite as old as you, but I too like shocking people at the pool when I take my shirt off. Also like shocking the youngins' at the gym too! LOL
Steve

I also had a huge increase in progress at 7 months. I leveled off for a while, but have recently been gaining some muscle, up 6 lbs sine the summer by adding 20 mg test cyp per week and creative to a more protein rich diet. Started TRT at 187 and 18% bodyfat(3 site skinfold ) and am at approx 10% at 194. I think the key is to be pati not and train as diligently as you can.

Great progress mad city dad!
 

Mad City Dad

New Member
Sleep is probably the number one thing you can do to get anabolic. I think almost any routine will work if you work it hard and consistently, especially if your diet is clean and you get sleep regularly. As far a discipline, I believe you are correct. It can take years to get where you want to be. A lot of people say, “I'd do anything to look like thatwhen they see a guy with a lot of muscle and ripped. Would they really? I think not. There are no shortcuts, not even TRT. TRT gives you a fighting chance, but you have to do the fighting yourself.

VERY wise words here, Mountain Man. Sleep and recovery is paramount! 3 things I am VERY strict about, my workouts (never miss one, never give less than 110%), my meals (never miss one, eat clean) and my sleep (in bed by 9:30, sleep 8 hours, and naps when needed). You do not build/grow muscle in the gym. You "destroy" muscle in the gym, creating all kinds of micro tears. You grow muscle when you sleep as your body repairs the damage done in the gym. Remember, you cannot out train a bad diet or lack of sleep.
Steve
 
I'm not as old as you but I'm 29. Still young but getting up there. I'm okay with working out 5 days a week, I made this thread because I noticed I feel capable of doing that now. I recently read that although recovery is important, soreness isn't an excuse to skip a day, and that soreness often goes away once you get blood flowing by working out or simply warming up. That was a big revelation for me.
 

Mad City Dad

New Member
I'm not as old as you but I'm 29. Still young but getting up there. I'm okay with working out 5 days a week, I made this thread because I noticed I feel capable of doing that now. I recently read that although recovery is important, soreness isn't an excuse to skip a day, and that soreness often goes away once you get blood flowing by working out or simply warming up. That was a big revelation for me.

Ahhh, you're just a young pup! You are right, you do not skip a gym day just because of soreness (especially since it is most likely DOMS). Pain due to significant injury is another story though. You have to really know your body. One of the things I have now that I did not have at your age is that wisdom of knowing when I should push on and when I really need to back off. For me personally, "pushing through" minor injuries and definitely DOMS, always make me feel better. I always have what is called an "active recovery" day at the gym. It's a lighter workout, where the goal is to flood the muscles with blood flow (think lower weights, higher repetitions) to help in the recovery process.
 

Gman86

Member
Last question about your protocol lol. I only ask because you seem to have yours dialed in really well in regards to mood and muscle gains, etc. But just wondering where your free testosterone sits?
 
Hey Mountain Man,
I respectfully disagree that you can't cut and gain at the same time. Actually, we are probably saying the same thing but in a different way. You mention "recomp" when your body is changing composition, while staying the same weight. If this is in a positive direction, you are gaining muscle mass and losing fat. So if a person weighs, for example, 200lbs, and is 30% body fat, and starts working out and 6 months later still weighs 200lbs but is now 15% bodyfat, what has happened? They have gained muscle and cut fat at the same time. All with out changing weight. So they have gained and cut at the same time.
Steve

We may be saying the same thing, I agree. At 64, training over 50 years and all the injuries I have had, I take any gains I can get. I have gained a total of 8 lbs body weight and dropped from around 15-18 % body fat to 10%. I was coming off a 3 tear rotator cuff surgery when I got on TRT so I wasn't in great shape muscle wise. When I read this, I was thinking he meant getting noticeably bigger. I did try this one last time at age 57, when I did my first few cycles of prohormones, getting up to 207. I was bigger for sure, but didn't like how I felt or the abdominal fat. Don't always have it, but I do like to keep some muscle tone in my abs. I have stopped looking for mass, at 64 it's probably not the best idea. I try to stay lean and cut, with some size. Any time I tell people I weigh 195, they think I am lying. Most take me for 180 or so. At 6'0 I think 200 is about the most I can carry. As long as I know that there's muscle when the shirt comes off, I'm happy.

Here's the recent results at 195:

5C2C4C11-7930-4101-A986-2669F12E8CC9.jpeg
 

ERO

Member
I don’t think you can get mass and cut at the same time with anything. I’ve been training since 1967 and have never been able to combine these two. It’s always been one or the other. My weight was the same for a long time on TRT, with a recomp going on. I got a lot more muscular during this time. No one noticed anything except my wife. She was the only one, as I have always trained alone at home. At my age, the look I am going for is best callled secretly swole. I don’t hang out, try to impress anybody. I just want to know that I can take my shirt off and people are shocked. Happens in the summer all the time, and my wife thinks it’s hilarious.

I think slow progress and training for longevity is the way to go. It is incredibly hard to put on 5 lbs of muscle while dropping a few percent body fat, but the results can be pretty dramatic.

ERO, are you working out hard enough? What’s your age and your workout routine like?

I am 53 but even when I was 18, I could only work a given body part once a week. Any more often and I am over-trained by week 2. My body just does not recover well from exercise. I am envious of guys that can - for example - hit legs twice a week or chest twice a week and make gains. I know how to calculate my macros and I make sure to hit my requirements almost every day. I love to workout and I never miss a day unless I am really ill, but it just doesn't translate to the gains that most guys get.
TRT has not helped me one bit in this area, either. But I know my body chemistry is weird and my results are atypical.
 
I am 53 but even when I was 18, I could only work a given body part once a week. Any more often and I am over-trained by week 2. My body just does not recover well from exercise. I am envious of guys that can - for example - hit legs twice a week or chest twice a week and make gains. I know how to calculate my macros and I make sure to hit my requirements almost every day. I love to workout and I never miss a day unless I am really ill, but it just doesn't translate to the gains that most guys get.
TRT has not helped me one bit in this area, either. But I know my body chemistry is weird and my results are atypical.

When I was in my 50s, I hit each bodypart once per week with weights and got some improvement. After 60 weights, no matter how I tried - light, high reps, low volume etc- led to injuries and sore joints like a torn rotator. Since the surgery, I've been using resistance bands and can work each body part 3 times per week without joint pain. Don't get frustrated, I'd bet you are way ahead of other guys your age, TRT or not.
 
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