Changing dose

At the tail end up my second week switching from .3ml(60mg) to .29 ml(58mg) e3.5 days of test cyp in an effort to lower estradiol. Testes are hanging lower, which is nice. No other improvements to note.

I am curious as to why switching doses(up or down) for me always gives me a few weeks of feeling like I’m not on any form of TRT. From past experience I knew it would happen, and I know you need to wait 5-6 weeks before getting bloodwork done again so you can get to steady state. It’s not that I feel bad per se, but libido becomes non existent for awhile, drive goes down a bit, etc. I would think since I’m already at a steady state it wouldn’t take so long to start “feeling” it again, but without fail it always happens. Anybody have any ideas on why this happens? Does it happen to other people?

Have you posted your labs, it would be interesting to see them.

johnjohnson said:

At the tail end up my second week switching from .3ml(60mg) to .29 ml(58mg) e3.5 days of test cyp in an effort to lower estradiol. Testes are hanging lower, which is nice. No other improvements to note.

I am curious as to why switching doses(up or down) for me always gives me a few weeks of feeling like I’m not on any form of TRT. From past experience I knew it would happen, and I know you need to wait 5-6 weeks before getting bloodwork done again so you can get to steady state. It’s not that I feel bad per se, but libido becomes non existent for awhile, drive goes down a bit, etc. I would think since I’m already at a steady state it wouldn’t take so long to start “feeling” it again, but without fail it always happens. Anybody have any ideas on why this happens? Does it happen to other people?

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It does happen to a few people and certainty happens to me. It is your body adapting to the new hormone levels. However such a tiny change in dosage shouldn’t cause that in my opinion. 2mg difference very difficult to measure that in a syringe (unless you are using a 30cc insulin syringe)

HealthMan said:

It does happen to a few people and certainty happens to me. It is your body adapting to the new hormone levels. However such a tiny change in dosage shouldn’t cause that in my opinion. 2mg difference very difficult to measure that in a syringe (unless you are using a 30cc insulin syringe)

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Hell with my eyes I am never injecting the same each time I am somewhere between .18 and .20 M/W/F

I do not loose the T feeling with such tiny changes to the injection amount.

Also your balls should be pulling up and atrophying unless you are taking HCG.

You need to match bigger changes to your dosage or it's going to be a long time before you start seeing good results, 2mg reduction is miniscule and your results will be.

Systemlord said:

You need to match bigger changes to your dosage or it's going to be a long time before you start seeing good results, 2mg reduction is miniscule and your results will be.

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I’ve got plenty of time and I prefer to go slow.

HealthMan said:

It does happen to a few people and certainty happens to me. It is your body adapting to the new hormone levels. However such a tiny change in dosage shouldn’t cause that in my opinion. 2mg difference very difficult to measure that in a syringe (unless you are using a 30cc insulin syringe)

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Yes I use insulin syringes, extremely easy to make small adjustments.

FeelingLost said:

Hell with my eyes I am never injecting the same each time I am somewhere between .18 and .20 M/W/F

I do not loose the T feeling with such tiny changes to the injection amount.

Also your balls should be pulling up and atrophying unless you are taking HCG.

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I take HCG, so no atrophy here. When e2 is high they are always up, when it’s in range they hang quit a bit more.

Vince said:

Have you posted your labs, it would be interesting to see them.

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Latest bloodwork:

Total test: 979 (264-916)
Free test: 32.5 (9.3-26.5)
Sensitive e2: 49.9 ( 8-35)

Taken at trough. Been on trt a little over a year. Have had high hematocrit once, and recently back acne flared up and libido hasn’t been the greatest. So I’m slowly titrating down until my e2 is closer to range.

johnjohnson said:

I take HCG, so no atrophy here. When e2 is high they are always up, when it's in range they hang quit a bit more.

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Im noticing similar

JohnJonhson, I think you are on the right track by reducing your dose but I agree with others, your change is too small. It is insignificant and any change you detect may or may not be from your change in dose. Even your blood work numbers will vary for other reasons.

johnjohnson said:

I take HCG, so no atrophy here. When e2 is high they are always up, when it's in range they hang quit a bit more.

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Same here, testes are an excellent tool in gauging E2 status towards the high end. My latest reduction not only has brought them hanging a little more but also I feel good.

Saul said:

JohnJonhson, I think you are on the right track by reducing your dose but I agree with others, your change is too small. It is insignificant and any change you detect may or may not be from your change in dose. Even your blood work numbers will vary for other reasons.

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Maybe so man, but I don’t believe there is any harm in going in small amounts. Basically guarantees I don’t swing through my sweet spot on accident. Like I said, I’ve got plenty of time and patience.

johnjohnson said:

At the tail end up my second week switching from .3ml(60mg) to .29 ml(58mg) e3.5 days of test cyp in an effort to lower estradiol. Testes are hanging lower, which is nice. No other improvements to note.

I am curious as to why switching doses(up or down) for me always gives me a few weeks of feeling like I'm not on any form of TRT. From past experience I knew it would happen, and I know you need to wait 5-6 weeks before getting bloodwork done again so you can get to steady state. It's not that I feel bad per se, but libido becomes non existent for awhile, drive goes down a bit, etc. I would think since I'm already at a steady state it wouldn't take so long to start “feeling” it again, but without fail it always happens. Anybody have any ideas on why this happens? Does it happen to other people?

Click to expand...

Not much to add but I appreciate your post. I recently bumped my dose down 12mg/week and have definitely noticed what you described. This was my first dosage change since beginning cyp injections so wasn't exactly sure what to expect.

FeelingLost said:

Hell with my eyes I am never injecting the same each time I am somewhere between .18 and .20 M/W/F

I do not loose the T feeling with such tiny changes to the injection amount.

Also your balls should be pulling up and atrophying unless you are taking HCG.

Click to expand...

I have been on trt for 14 months no a.i. and absolutely no hcg. My testes still hang and if anything may be slightly smaller but I do not notice as they were a descent size pre-trt.

I can still shoot big loads some times 2x/day within a few hrs................sure load consistency/size can very but overall my libido is strong/erections great (firm morning wood often)/spontaneous and getting better the longer I have been on trt.

Hcg can benefit many but it is false to think it is needed on a trt protocol unless one wants to stay fertile/keep testes fuller - even though it is the leydig cells which atrophy and they only make up 10-20% of the testes volume.

I would say those that notice extreme shrinkage (what they view to be extreme shrinkage) is really those individuals whom naturally had smaller testes pre-trt!

madman said:

I have been on trt for 14 months no a.i. and absolutely no hcg. My testes still hang and if anything may be slightly smaller but I do not notice as they were a descent size pre-trt.

I can still shoot big loads some times 2x/day within a few hrs................sure load consistency/size can very but overall my libido is strong/erections great (firm morning wood often)/spontaneous and getting better the longer I have been on trt.

Hcg can benefit many but it is false to think it is needed on a trt protocol unless one wants to stay fertile/keep testes fuller - even though it is the leydig cells which atrophy and they only make up 10-20% of the testes volume.

I would say those that notice extreme shrinkage (what they view to be extreme shrinkage) is really those individuals whom naturally had smaller testes pre-trt!

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Are you stating that even after 14 months that libido and erections are continuing to improve?

Systemlord said:

Are you stating that even after 14 months that libido and erections are continuing to improve?

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Originally I started trt at 100mg/week - delatestryl (enanthate) for the first 8 weeks...............my levels were still too low.

Ended up on 75mg every 3.5 days- 12 months straight so far and the longer I have been on the better I feel.

When I started like many I noticed improvements in libido/erections but it was inconsistent (ups and downs) throughout the first 3 months and since than has improved greatly.

6 months in is when I really started to notice consistency in libido/quality of erections and now after a year on the same protocol overall I feel great - strong libido (not raging),erection quality/strength,morning wood/spontaneous erections,lots of energy,good mood,increased strength/muscle and recovery.

On the other side of the coin increased oily skin (if it can get any worse as I have always had extremely oily skin), odd pimple on shoulders/upper back but rare,definitely increased hair growth (dark rogue hairs/horse hairs some say) on shoulders/upper back, increased facial hair growth, no hair loss as I had already had hair thinning in my mid 20s (due to genetics) pre-trt so I had already been shaving my head since than.

I would say I am one of the outliers as I have consistently stuck with the same protocol for so long without the use of an a.i. or hcg.

Trust me there were times when I thought about switching my protocol (lower dose or increase injection frequency) or adding hcg but I toughed it out to see how my body would truly respond to testosterone only and thankfully I did not need an a.i. as I have never experienced any high e2 related symptoms.

My total t trough is usually 1100-1200 ng/dl range (225-915 ng/dl)and my free t is double the upper end of the range 1136 pmol/L range (196-636 pmol/L). I have only had my e2 tested a few times using the standard test which was only available in Canada at the time and it came back high 242 pmol/L range (<159 pmol/L).

The sensitive assay is available in Canada now which I plan on getting some time soon as I would like to know where my e2 really sits.

My shbg is roughly mid-range 34 nmol/L range (12-60 nmol/L).

This may be of interest to you.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?13585-Huge-increase-in-libido-with-DIM