1. #1

    Most up to date HCG/AI dosing/timing protocol

    Alright, my doc will allow me to try TRT (Cyp, HCG, AI). 100mg per week 1x per week. My question is, what dose/timing of HCG is the most up-to-date protocol when doing a 1x per week injection of test? I’ve seen every other day, E3D, and also just both days before your next injection to try and prevent levels from dropping off before the next shot. Suggestions? Along with that, what dose/timing for Arimidex as well?
    Thanks


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  3. #2
    Do NOT use arimidex right off the bat. I'd question your Dr...once weekly shot, dispenses AI right away without symptoms or testing...bad news. Probabyl never ran your SHBG, either, which should be the driver to how often you inject Cyp.

  4. #3
    I am currently on 12.5mg Clomid per day and .5mg Arimidex 2x per week. My numbers are decent but I do not feel any differently.

    That's why he wanted my to try this method to see if I felt better.

    SHBG is upper normal range (driven up by the Clomid).

    Just looking for HCG and AI dosage and timing for a 1x per week injection of Test Cyp (100mg).

  5. #4
    the crisler method 2 hcg days before your test pin is still practiced by some. personally this tends to work the best for me. currently i do 250 hcg friday, 250 hcg saturday, 200 mg enanthate sunday. absolutely no AI for me, i cant go near that poison.

  6. #5
    Trying to use HCG for a day 5/6 bump of endo is worthless if your primary hypo. It may still work or be liked by some guys and by all means but it's also in the scheme of things, pretty archaic. As far as the Crisler method, Dr C moved past that years ago to daily HCG.

  7. #6
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    I've always injected HCG along with my testosterone. Same day same time, but I never injected only once a week.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  8. #7
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    A lot depends on what you are using the hcg for. I'm only interested in maintaining the size of my boys. I'm not interested in fertility and I don't get much of a feeling of well being from hcg. So I inject 250iu twice weekly.

  9. #8
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    During my 3 plus years of TRT, I've always injected 500iu of HCG twice a week. I've never had any reason to reduce the dose. I know there's no cookie cutter approach to trt, we all must find what works best for us.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  10. #9
    HCG would be to maintain fertility and function, for me.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    HCG would be to maintain fertility and function, for me.
    That's a horse of a different color. I cannot offer advice on such an important topic having no personal experience.

  12. #11
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    HCG would be to maintain fertility and function, for me.
    Semen analysis results after adding FSH to TRT and hCG

    https://www.excelmale.com/showthread...to-TRT-and-hCG
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Semen analysis results after adding FSH to TRT and hCG

    https://www.excelmale.com/showthread...to-TRT-and-hCG
    Doesn't HCG alone preserve fertility when on TRT?

  14. #13
    I am secondary hypogonadal and I now follow Dr Crislers latest suggestion and use 100iu of HCG subQ daily. I tried using larger amounts less frequently and I didn't like how I felt. No AI.

  15. #14
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    Doesn't HCG alone preserve fertility when on TRT?
    No, for some HCG will keep them fertile, others it won't. It's really hard to remain fertile with testosterone and HCG.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    No, for some HCG will keep them fertile, others it won't. It's really hard to remain fertile with testosterone and HCG.
    I thought that was the whole point of HCG....

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    I thought that was the whole point of HCG....
    If you are primary then chances are it won't do anything for fertility. If you reacted well to Clomid then HCG will most likely keep you fertile. I am secondary and Clomid will bring me up to 800 by itself and keep my testes full. HCG doesn't raise my test levels quite a's much but it does keep testes full. Haven't done a sperms count tho.

  18. #17
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    I thought that was the whole point of HCG....
    Some Frequently Asked hCG Questions

    https://www.excelmale.com/showthread...-hCG-Questions
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911 View Post
    If you are primary then chances are it won't do anything for fertility. If you reacted well to Clomid then HCG will most likely keep you fertile. I am secondary and Clomid will bring me up to 800 by itself and keep my testes full. HCG doesn't raise my test levels quite a's much but it does keep testes full. Haven't done a sperms count tho.
    Clomid will raise both LH and FSH thus stimulating both Leydig and Sertorii cells. HCG will only work as a LH substitute keeping intra testicular testosterone within range (just part of the equation to keep fertility). So HCG + TRT is much more inferior than clomid alone when it comes to fertility.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    snip...

    Just looking for HCG and AI dosage and timing for a 1x per week injection of Test Cyp (100mg).
    I have no idea if this is the latest and greatest. But this works for me.
    HCG I like 400iu Monday and 400iu Thursday so 800 per week.
    My AI EmPower's Anastrozole has been a steady .125 EOD for the last 8 months.
    While I was changing doc and clinics my TT has been as low as 350 and high as 1175.
    Taking .125 EOD my E2 has never crashed or been out of range on the high side.

    Now to be honest 100/wk is a low dose and most don't need an AI on such a low dose. YMMV if a high E2 is scary to you then try .125 x2 wk.

    Good luck and welcome

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Carter View Post
    Trying to use HCG for a day 5/6 bump of endo is worthless if your primary hypo. It may still work or be liked by some guys and by all means but it's also in the scheme of things, pretty archaic. As far as the Crisler method, Dr C moved past that years ago to daily HCG.
    i guess things are a bit different in my case, i had zero problems when i started trt, midrange lh/fsh, good free test. hcg has been really good to me. going back to test prop soon, i like changing esters. And will be doing the 100 daily hcg method with that.

  22. #21
    I think I'm going to try this to start off:

    100mg Test Cyp (50mg 2x per week) - Mon/Thurs
    1000iu HCG (500iu 2x per week) - Mon/Thurs
    .5mg Adex (.25mg 2x per week) - Mon/Thurs

    Thoughts?

    Also - is there a need to "backfill" with DHEA/pregnenolone, etc.? Or does HCG take care of the "backfilling'.

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    I think I'm going to try this to start off:

    100mg Test Cyp (50mg 2x per week) - Mon/Thurs
    1000iu HCG (500iu 2x per week) - Mon/Thurs
    .5mg Adex (.25mg 2x per week) - Mon/Thurs

    Thoughts?

    Also - is there a need to "backfill" with DHEA/pregnenolone, etc.? Or does HCG take care of the "backfilling'.
    With this total change to injections from Clomid you should not be using any AI, at all until you test in 6 weeks and can also evaluate any E-symptoms. You may not need any AI and using it now would be detrimental. The rest seems reasonable. I do not advocate the use of Preg or DHEA.

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Carter View Post
    With this total change to injections from Clomid you should not be using any AI, at all until you test in 6 weeks and can also evaluate any E-symptoms. You may not need any AI and using it now would be detrimental. The rest seems reasonable. I do not advocate the use of Preg or DHEA.
    Thanks for the input. Another question....I've heard people using 29g 1/2" insulin syringes for injecting Test Cyp in the quads/delts. What does everyone here use when injecting smaller amounts 2x per week? I've also heard of people injecting Test Cyp subcutaneously, just like HCG. Would love some thoughts and opinions on needle size/length...

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    Thanks for the input. Another question....I've heard people using 29g 1/2" insulin syringes for injecting Test Cyp in the quads/delts. What does everyone here use when injecting smaller amounts 2x per week? I've also heard of people injecting Test Cyp subcutaneously, just like HCG. Would love some thoughts and opinions on needle size/length...
    The 29g 1/2" is pretty much standard equipment for Cyp and HCG here, no need to use a larger or longer needle for any of this; SQ

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Carter View Post
    The 29g 1/2" is pretty much standard equipment for Cyp and HCG here, no need to use a larger or longer needle for any of this; SQ
    So sub Q for both Test and HCG?

    Or IM with the Test in the delts or quads? Is .5" long enough to accomplish this?
    Last edited by nwolfe88; 02-26-2018 at 10:06 AM.

  27. #26
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    So sub Q for both Test and HCG?

    Or IM with the Test in the delts or quads? Is .5" long enough to accomplish this?
    Yes it's long enough, I used 29g 1/2" for shallow IM injections for T and HCG.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  28. #27
    Ok, so what I'm hearing is:

    For HCG, use 29g .5" SUBQ
    For Test, use 29g .5" IM in quad or delt

    Correct?

  29. #28
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    Ok, so what I'm hearing is:

    For HCG, use 29g .5" SUBQ
    For Test, use 29g .5" IM in quad or delt

    Correct?
    Both should work just fine. Personally I don't like Sub-Q injections all my injections are shallow IM using the Easy touch 29g 1/2" syringe, I inject in my shoulders and VG.
    Best Injection site, no aspiration needed, avoids all nerves
    https://www.excelmale.com/showthread...ids-all-nerves
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by nwolfe88 View Post
    Ok, so what I'm hearing is:

    For HCG, use 29g .5" SUBQ
    For Test, use 29g .5" IM in quad or delt

    Correct?
    Stick the needle in a push the plunger. At some point youre overthinking and making this too hard on yourself. SQ and IM and Shallow IM are flawed terms that don't necessarily mean anything, at all, when using a .5" long needle.

  31. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Carter View Post
    Stick the needle in a push the plunger. At some point youre overthinking and making this too hard on yourself. SQ and IM and Shallow IM are flawed terms that don't necessarily mean anything, at all, when using a .5" long needle.
    Alright - getting to the point where the doc has submitted the scripts. Was only able to get him to agree to once a week TEST injections so far, but he did say he's not ruling out moving to two.

    Anyways, once a week is what I have right now, so I'm looking for suggestions on the best timing for HCG/AI, if say my TEST injection was 'Day 1'. Shooting for 500iu 2x / week of HCG. Which days (1-7) should these two HCG injections be? AI timing?

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