My T dosage is too high. E2 high as well. Fighting symptoms.

_CTI_ · Jan 29, 2018

I've been lurking on this forum for about 6 weeks now. I was diagnosed back in Dec with low T. Low E2 as well. I went to see an hrt specialist in my area and he immediately put me on 100mg cyp + 300iu HCG every 3.5 days. No AI. I had bw done last week on my own volition (Thanks DiscountLabs!). I was suffering from anger issues, water retention and ED. I've attached bw and the day after I went to Labcorp I cut my dose down to 14mg daily to help with aromatization. So far so good. My symptoms are improving and I have a follow up with my Doc next week. I've been getting a little overwhelmed at the amount of info I've come across and just wanted a more seasoned set of eyes to maybe point out some things I've missed or misinterpreted. Also my initial SHBG was 18nmol/l
Stats:
6'3 250lbs
~25% bf. (caliber test)
Desk job 8-10 hrs day.
Exercise includes Rock climbing 2X week 3-4 hrs
Interval training 2x week 30mins
If you need any other info just ask!

FeelingLost · Jan 29, 2018

Can't open your PDF get this

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_CTI_ · Jan 29, 2018

It should download. I just tried it. Is there anything else I need to do permission wise?

FeelingLost · Jan 29, 2018

_CTI_ said:
It should download. I just tried it. Is there anything else I need to do permission wise?

It is working now what ever you did worked. I'll post again after reviewing your BT.

Yeah you are taking way too much T to not be on an AI. Your current protocol is going to make you feel like shit and I will guess man boobs are in your future although you did not measure prolactin I am pretty sure it is also High out of range.
If you are not going to take an AI I would not go above 60mg 2xweek for a 120 total Just my opinion and I am no doc. My latest bloods and protocol is here taken on 1/16/18
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-Blood-Test-2018-T-followup-and-Thyriod-panel

CoastWatcher · Jan 30, 2018

It puzzles me why a doctor would suggest such a whopper of a dose of cypionate, 100mg twice weekly, when you presented with a very low SHBG value. What was discussed in that regard?

_CTI_ · Jan 30, 2018

Your bw looks pretty good! How are you feeling at those levels? With T that high Im guessing you need an AI? I dont want to go over 120mg wk. I dont think it's necessary with my shbg levels. That's why I switched to 14mg ed. Feeling a lot better over the last week but was wondering if lowering my dose was the answer or introducing an AI was the way to go. I'm still unsure whether I should be looking at TT or free T.

_CTI_ · Jan 30, 2018

CoastWatcher said:
It puzzles me why a doctor would suggest such a whopper of a dose of cypionate, 100mg twice weekly, when you presented with a very low SHBG value. What was discussed in that regard?

We never discussed my shbg levels. I was only made aware of it's importance from this forum and others like it.

Vince · Jan 30, 2018

I like your new protocol 14mg of T daily, I'm doing 16mg of testosterone Cypionate daily, HCG 500iu twice a week and no AI. It may help your E2 and hopefully you wouldn't need an AI. I never had high E2, I started daily to help keep my HCT in a good range, so far so good it's been a year since I had to donate blood.

CoastWatcher · Jan 30, 2018

A daily protocol works wonders for me. Two and a half years ago it brought down my elevated estradiol and now I've really achieved true steady-state levels. Give it six weeks and test again; it may solve the challenges your original protocol created.

CoastWatcher · Jan 30, 2018

_CTI_ said:
We never discussed my shbg levels. I was only made aware of it's importance from this forum and others like it.

With SHBG sitting at 18, you are a perfect candidate for a protocol featuring frequent, smaller injections - as you've now adopted. SHBG is one of the major factors that helps guide the design of a protocol. Not even addressing it with you makes me wonder at how capable, perhaps experienced would be a better term, your doctor is.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...rum-Levels-and-Urges-Testing-for-TRT-Patients

_CTI_ · Jan 30, 2018

Vince said:
I like your new protocol 14mg of T daily, I'm doing 16mg of testosterone Cypionate daily, HCG 500iu twice a week and no AI. It may help your E2 and hopefully you wouldn't need an AI. I never had high E2, I started daily to help keep my HCT in a good range, so far so good it's been a year since I had to donate blood.

Me too. It's only been a little more than a week and I already feel ALOT better. I feel sort of bad going against my doctors advice but I felt like such shit. I'm going to see him next week to discuss my experience. My doc is very liberal with the meds and offered up sermorelin along with pregnenolone and something else...which is awesome but I don't feel like I need the amounts he's talking about.

_CTI_ · Jan 30, 2018

CoastWatcher said:
With SHBG sitting at 18, you are a perfect candidate for a protocol featuring frequent, smaller injections - as you've now adopted. SHBG is one of the major factors that helps guide the design of a protocol. Not even addressing it with you makes me wonder at how capable, perhaps experienced would be a better term, your doctor is.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...rum-Levels-and-Urges-Testing-for-TRT-Patients

I thought I might be overdoing it with the daily dosing but there seems to be a number of different benefits along with no AI. I was thinking about asking for prop.

_CTI_ · Jan 30, 2018

CoastWatcher said:
A daily protocol works wonders for me. Two and a half years ago it brought down my elevated estradiol and now I've really achieved true steady-state levels. Give it six weeks and test again; it may solve the challenges your original protocol created.

That's my plan. Thanks for the advice. It's hard playing the waiting game but it looks like there's no quick fix to this sort of thing.

FeelingLost · Jan 30, 2018

_CTI_ said:
Your bw looks pretty good! How are you feeling at those levels? With T that high Im guessing you need an AI? I dont want to go over 120mg wk. I dont think it's necessary with my shbg levels. That's why I switched to 14mg ed. Feeling a lot better over the last week but was wondering if lowering my dose was the answer or introducing an AI was the way to go. I'm still unsure whether I should be looking at TT or free T.

"How are you feeling at those levels? "
Too much. My mind won't shut off hard to sleep. Night time and morning stiffies, chasing my wife around the house like I am 20. 3 hours after 1 hour of sex I am horny again. It might sound like fun ...it is not... I have a consult with my TRT doc in 3 weeks but until then I've cut my .25 x3 to .18x3 no change to HCG or AI which is .125 EOD.
It is just my opinion but I think you listening to your body and reducing your T dose was a very smart thing to do.

_CTI_ · Feb 3, 2018

FeelingLost said:
"How are you feeling at those levels? "
Too much. My mind won't shut off hard to sleep. Night time and morning stiffies, chasing my wife around the house like I am 20. 3 hours after 1 hour of sex I am horny again. It might sound like fun ...it is not... I have a consult with my TRT doc in 3 weeks but until then I've cut my .25 x3 to .18x3 no change to HCG or AI which is .125 EOD.
It is just my opinion but I think you listening to your body and reducing your T dose was a very smart thing to do.

I definitely fell like it was a step in the right direction. But I still fell like my E2 is up there a bit. I've been foggy. irritated and tired the last few weeks after I cut my dose, plus intermittent nip itch/burning...which could be the hair that's been growing in that area. Are these sides even possible with 14mg t + 100iu Hcg daily? I though I would be converting way less. Unless it takes a while for the E2 to subside. But I figured that would take a few days. Anyway...I have an appointment for bw on Monday and will discuss things with my doc. I don't want to change anything before the bw because I want a snapshot of where I'm at. He's most likely going to put me on preg as well for cognitive stuff (one of my chief complaints). After that though...any suggestions? I was thinking of running my hcg @ 50iu daily or knock the t down again to 10 or 12mg. I may be a bit impatient here but I hate being snappy with people and sort of in a bad mood by the end of the day. I'm not looking for supraphys levels T levels here, just want symptom relief and to feel like myself again. Thank you guys for all of your help so far. My friends think I'm taking steroids and my girlfriend is doing her best to put up with my manstrual symptoms.

FeelingLost · Feb 3, 2018

_CTI_ said:
I definitely fell like it was a step in the right direction. But I still fell like my E2 is up there a bit. I've been foggy. irritated and tired the last few weeks after I cut my dose, plus intermittent nip itch/burning...which could be the hair that's been growing in that area. Are these sides even possible with 14mg t + 100iu Hcg daily? I though I would be converting way less. Unless it takes a while for the E2 to subside. But I figured that would take a few days. Anyway...I have an appointment for bw on Monday and will discuss things with my doc. I don't want to change anything before the bw because I want a snapshot of where I'm at. He's most likely going to put me on preg as well for cognitive stuff (one of my chief complaints). After that though...any suggestions? I was thinking of running my hcg @ 50iu daily or knock the t down again to 10 or 12mg. I may be a bit impatient here but I hate being snappy with people and sort of in a bad mood by the end of the day. I'm not looking for supraphys levels T levels here, just want symptom relief and to feel like myself again. Thank you guys for all of your help so far. My friends think I'm taking steroids and my girlfriend is doing her best to put up with my manstrual symptoms.

HCG is known to raise E2. I would stop for a while and see if you feel better.
It took months when I was T mono before I noticed or felt my ball shrinking or pull up against my body.

If somewhere up in another post you said you need to stay fertile then forget droping the HCG and go get an AI
the only other way is to drop you T yet again that will always drop your E2.

_CTI_ · Mar 5, 2018

I just wanted to update this in case anyone saw it. I went to go talk to my doc and he wanted me to us 60mg cyp / 300iu Hcg with .5mg adex every 3.5 days. I tried this and just could not handle the adex. I feel like I tanked my E2 and was just dead tired with a good day every now and then around my trough. We took blood again and here are the results:
TT : 910 ng/dl
Free T: 39.5 ng / dl
E2 (non sensitive): 21 pg / ml
SHBG: 12 !! (forget what the units are)

We've discussed a number of different protocols and he's letting me do daily injections of 12mg / 100iu Hcg. No AI. Im thinking that this should been a good place to tweak from.

Vince · Mar 6, 2018

_CTI_ said:
We've discussed a number of different protocols and he's letting me do daily injections of 12mg / 100iu Hcg. No AI. Im thinking that this should been a good place to tweak from.

That is a very low starting dose, keep us updated on your progress.

CoastWatcher · Mar 6, 2018

_CTI_ said:
I just wanted to update this in case anyone saw it. I went to go talk to my doc and he wanted me to us 60mg cyp / 300iu Hcg with .5mg adex every 3.5 days. I tried this and just could not handle the adex. I feel like I tanked my E2 and was just dead tired with a good day every now and then around my trough. We took blood again and here are the results:
TT : 910 ng/dl
Free T: 39.5 ng / dl
E2 (non sensitive): 21 pg / ml
SHBG: 12 !! (forget what the units are)

We've discussed a number of different protocols and he's letting me do daily injections of 12mg / 100iu Hcg. No AI. Im thinking that this should been a good place to tweak from.

It is, as Vince has pointed out, a low starting dose. That said, it's far easier to "start low and go slow" (I believe it's Dr. Crisler who coined that phrase - one that ought to be kept in mind by doctors and patients alike).

_CTI_ · Mar 7, 2018

CoastWatcher said:
It is, as Vince has pointed out, a low starting dose. That said, it's far easier to "start low and go slow" (I believe it's Dr. Crisler who coined that phrase - one that ought to be kept in mind by doctors and patients alike).

I wish I had done that in the first place but here we are. I gotta say I'm feeling pretty off it today. I had a shit day at work (Brain Fog), got emotional talking with my gf about something pretty trivial and noticed some shrinkage. Not was I was hoping for. How long until this stabilizes?

My T dosage is too high. E2 high as well. Fighting symptoms.

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