Newbie protocol.

Hello, brothers! I found this site just a few weeks ago and I decided to jump in with both feet and contacted Defy. Completed the initial phys/blood work consult and got accepted as a patient. Basic backstory is in my first post in the "Introductions" forum:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?13049-Wassuuup-!!!

So I finally got my prescription last Friday as follows

70 mg test cyp twice a week
500iu HCG twice a week
.25mg Anastrozole twice a week

Dr. also recommended 25mg a day of DHEA, and vitamin D3.

One of my first questions is about the Anastrozole. Given the dislike for AI in general here in these forums, unless and until negative estrogen effects occur, would you start off with that dose right off the bat? Is there something about my e2, SHGB levels, or anything that would indicate I should start with an AI? Estradiol @ 26.1 a little high to start with and just a precaution?
The Dr. was very informative and willing to answer questions, it was just a lot to take in at the time and now I've read a lot more here about AIs and most advice here leans toward avoidance if possible.

Original lab results =
Testosterone,Free and Total Testosterone, Serum 343 ng/dL 264 - 916
Free Testosterone(Direct) 11.8 pg/mL 6.8 - 21.5
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S LH 5.0 mIU/mL 1.7 - 8.6
Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.5 ng/mL 0.0 - 4.0 01
Estradiol, Sensitive 26.1 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 31.2 nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9

Thanks so much for having this forum full of so much good info!

I also found it odd that when I did order the Anastrozole from Defy it wouldn't let me order an actual .25mg capsule. The store shows a capsule at 0.05-0.35 mg. So I actually called the store to put the order in to tell them it didn't give me an actual menu to pick 0.25mg and they said that that was the correct choice, the capsules are sold as in a "range" from .05 to .35 mg???

pistolero said:

I also found it odd that when I did order the Anastrozole from Defy it wouldn't let me order an actual .25mg capsule. The store shows a capsule at 0.05-0.35 mg. So I actually called the store to put the order in to tell them it didn't give me an actual menu to pick 0.25mg and they said that that was the correct choice, the capsules are sold as in a "range" from .05 to .35 mg???

Click to expand...

I think it's just price bracketing. Think about the guys on .14mg adex. They would have to have 35 different options for the same price otherwise.

OK. But if they prescribe dosages at .1 or .05 mg increments, but they only give out pills labeled "0.05-0.35" that just doesn't make sense to me. If one tenth (or a hundredth) of a milligram makes a difference in the prescription why would they not offer one tenth of a milligram dose differences available? .05 to .35 is .3 mg. .3mg times twice a week seems to be a significant difference in a medicine that is prescribed in tenths and hundredths of mgs.

Or do you mean they just want to put that range as an option in the store, but they will send me an actual .25mg pill? She didn't explain it that way, but that would be acceptable. I was thinking they were actually sending out medicine that they'll only say has between .05 to .35 mg of actual Anastrozole.

Or, because my initial E2 sensitive was 26.1, and my SHGB is 31.2, an initial dose of .5mg per week is a good idea? Even without waiting for estrogen symptoms?

Also, just in case, what are the symptoms of E2 crash vs high E2?

pistolero said:

Or do you mean they just want to put that range as an option in the store, but they will send me an actual .25mg pill? She didn't explain it that way, but that would be acceptable. I was thinking they were actually sending out medicine that they'll only say has between .05 to .35 mg of actual Anastrozole.

Click to expand...

Correct. The medication will be the right dose, but the price is the same for any dosage in that bracket.

pistolero said:

OK. But if they prescribe dosages at .1 or .05 mg increments, but they only give out pills labeled "0.05-0.35" that just doesn't make sense to me. If one tenth (or a hundredth) of a milligram makes a difference in the prescription why would they not offer one tenth of a milligram dose differences available? .05 to .35 is .3 mg. .3mg times twice a week seems to be a significant difference in a medicine that is prescribed in tenths and hundredths of mgs.

Click to expand...

When you order anything from Defy they will check your file which has your protocol values and that is what they will send you and the label will state your prescription value it won't be a range.
hth

pistolero said:

Or, because my initial E2 sensitive was 26.1, and my SHGB is 31.2, an initial dose of .5mg per week is a good idea? Even without waiting for estrogen symptoms?

Also, just in case, what are the symptoms of E2 crash vs high E2?

Click to expand...

When you start raising your T levels -which is going to happen- your E2 rises as well. Say for example your T level after 6 weeks is 1,000 (a 300% rise), your E2 level should be in high 60's-70's which is why Defy prescribes a very low dose AI when just starting. Symptoms of low or high E2 are found here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hdr_Estrogen.aspx

I would follow what Dr. recommended and retest at 6 weeks to see where you are.

1Draw said:

I would follow what Dr. recommended and retest at 6 weeks to see where you are.

Click to expand...

Will do, thanks!

Good luck on your journey. Be patient and don't rush to conclusions. Some days in beginning are good and some days are bad, just give it time. You are in good hands with Defy.

OK, according to the tracking my medicine should arrive tomorrow. I plan on doing my first shot tomorrow PM. This will make my shots Tuesday PM and Friday AM. So I can make my follow up blood tests on Friday mornings, and take my shot of T after giving the blood sample.

One last stupid newbie question. On the HCG, I have a 5,000iu vial coming. If I put 5ml bac water in the 5,000iu I have 1,000iu per ml, right? So if my script is 500iu per injection, 0.5ml on the syringe is my dose, correct?

pistolero said:

OK, according to the tracking my medicine should arrive tomorrow. I plan on doing my first shot tomorrow PM. This will make my shots Tuesday PM and Friday AM. So I can make my follow up blood tests on Friday mornings, and take my shot of T after giving the blood sample.

One last stupid newbie question. On the HCG, I have a 5,000iu vial coming. If I put 5ml bac water in the 5,000iu I have 1,000iu per ml, right? So if my script is 500iu per injection, 0.5ml on the syringe is my dose, correct?

Click to expand...

Thats correct. So you will inject 0.5ml to get 500IU of HCG. Also, I would go to YouTube and watch Nelson’s videos on Estradiol and also on HCG. Very informative. Estradiol seems to be a subject of much debate. There is a believe of a more appropriate way to see at Estradiol, such as a TT/E2 ratio. I personally never liked the idea of starting on an AI right away without knowing how you will aromatase the T. We’re all different. If you’re obese or over weight, you will probably aromatase more. But still, we all are different. I think is worse to crash E2 and harder to get it back up than to have high E2 and take it down. Just watch the videos and make your own conclusions. In my case, I’ve been on TRT for about 4 months and I never used an AI. I don’t have any symptoms and my E2 was actually low (17) and all started with it at 22. Go figure. Imagine if I would have taken an AI for a “precaution”. I would have crash it bad. By the way, I take 160mg split E3.5D and HCG 350IU at every injection time of the Test Cyp. Again, we’re all different. I’m pretty lean and muscular. My genetics might be different. Thyroid and adrenal health make a big difference too. I support my adrenals with supplements and my thyroid with Armour Thyroid and they’re optimal.

AAARRRGHGH! Any tips on how to load the syringe without getting a bunch of bubbles in the oil? My first attempt had as much air as test.

pistolero said:

AAARRRGHGH! Any tips on how to load the syringe without getting a bunch of bubbles in the oil? My first attempt had as much air as test.

Click to expand...

Put some air in the syringe and push it into the vial. It will great some pressure in the vial and it will draw easier. Also, use a larger gauge needle to draw and then switch to the one you will use to inject.

Kaliman911 said:

Put some air in the syringe and push it into the vial. It will great some pressure in the vial and it will draw easier. Also, use a larger gauge needle to draw and then switch to the one you will use to inject.

Click to expand...

I did that. It wasn't hard to draw but I got a couple huge bubbles in the oil somehow. BIG bubbles like over halfway across the barrel. I am using 21g to draw and trying a 27g 1/2" to inject, if I get that far! I pushed the oil back into the vial and set it in some warm water, but not over the top of the vial. Gonna try again shortly.

You can just flick the syringe a bit with the needle up and let the bubble go to the top and push it out. With a intramuscular injection, a little bit of air bubbles are not an issue. Try to get them out as much though. Angle the vial and keep the needle tip submerged in the oil inside the vial when drawing.

I'm done. I was trying to stack the oil on top of the hcg. Wasted a few syringes and a dose or two of medicine but I started over with just the warm test and ended up with a bubble free syringe and a painless delt injection. Used a 30g Easytouch and put the hcg in my ample belly fat.

mixing HCG and test in the same syringe has given me trouble a few times too. If just starting out it might be better to keep them separate and focus on accurate dosing. One can always combine later after protocol gets dialed in. I always have better luck loading test first, then HCG. But I use same syringe and don't switch between loading and injecting. JUst my thoughts, couple of bubbles won't kill you.

Or should it be Monday night/Friday morning?