1. #1

    25 year old trying TRT - Defy protocol and Thyroid questions

    Has anyone treated their low T from using thyroid, DHEA? I just had my consult with Defy & the Dr. wants to put me on DHEA, dessicated thyroid (as well as TRT). I'm hesitant to jump into the TRT @ 25 but I think im going to do it. (Protocol is 80mg 2x/week & 500IU HCG w/ shots) . Just didn't know if fixing my thyroid would fix this - my TSH has always been good but Free T3 low. FWIW been trying to raise test for 2.5 years - tried clomid & came off only to come back about 100 pts higher on my test than before with the same free. I have always had very high SHBG. My T levels (multiple blood tests) off clomid are basically between 270-330 with free being below the range.


    Main thyroid problems I had were always extreme sensitivity to the cold & lowered metabolic rate.


    Clomid raises me to 900-1300 but w/ high SHBG. I do feel better on clomid(morning wood 95% of the time), but its fleeting at times in terms of libido & mood. I have been having some vision issues when transitioning to different lights & after exertion(exercise). Additionally, my muscle recovery & level of pain are not at levels that I want them to do be at. I suffered from chronic muscle pain & tore a bicep. I've always had a hard time putting on muscle & I look like I don't lift despite being highly educated in bodybuilding science. I'm not overweight as im 6'0 160 lbs - been trying everything under the sun the past 2.5 years. Initial tests of hormones revealed a 330 testosterone level (w/ free being below range) during a period of no stress (summer) and everything optimized.


    Doc gave me the option of going all in with everything or trying the conservative approach with the thyroid, DHEA & stinging nettle root. I have ordered the entire treatment & will start next week (although im still indecisive - guess thats another symptom of the low T).


    TRT - 80mg cyp E3.5D
    HCG - 500IU w/ TRT
    DHEA - 40mg/night
    Stinging nettle - 500 mg/day
    Dessicated thyroid - .5 grain for 1.5 weeks - work up to find sweet spot




    Anu inputs appreciated. I think im making the right choice!

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  3. #2
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    I'm afraid you won't be happy on trt, too young. I would try everything possible to stay off of trt at your age. Try one thing at a time, improve your thyroid numbers, see what a difference that might make.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  4. #3
    Appreciate the opinion! However, wouldn't fixing any hypothyroid problems raise my SHBG, thus making even less free test? I only say this because the clomid doesnt work all the time & my vision is starting to get affected. I have tried almost everything under the sun the last 3 years.

    Doesn't the testosterone/thyroid connection work like: T > E > GH > increased T4 to T3 conversion.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Hess View Post
    Appreciate the opinion! However, wouldn't fixing any hypothyroid problems raise my SHBG, thus making even less free test? I only say this because the clomid doesnt work all the time & my vision is starting to get affected. I have tried almost everything under the sun the last 3 years.

    Doesn't the testosterone/thyroid connection work like: T > E > GH > increased T4 to T3 conversion.
    If you truly have high shbg once weekly testosterone injections (higher dose) would be more effective at lowering it as oppose to injecting (lower dose) every 3.5 days.

    25 is definitely young to be starting testosterone before getting thyroid levels in place. As a thyroid issue can definitely cause issue with healthy testosterone levels let alone (excess stress/lack of sleep/excess body fat/poor diet/over training in the gym/excess alcohol/certain medications).
    Last edited by madman; 01-14-2018 at 06:15 PM.

  6. #5
    So when I say my thyroid is low I mean just my FT3 is low. Antibodies are negative

    TSH 1.16 uIU/ml .37 - 4.0
    Free T3 2.04 PG/ML 2.3 - 4.2
    Free T4 1.41 ng/dl .89 - 1.76


    My SHBG is :
    55-75 (off clomid)
    60-100 (on clomid)
    Last edited by Zach Hess; 01-13-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  7. #6
    Did you have you’re DHEA levels tested also? I’m 26 and tried DHEA and it made me feel worse. I had the same protocol as you except for the testosterone. Definitely proceed with caution if trying DHEA. It can raise E2 in men.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JayLay777 View Post
    Did you have you’re DHEA levels tested also? I’m 26 and tried DHEA and it made me feel worse. I had the same protocol as you except for the testosterone. Definitely proceed with caution if trying DHEA. It can raise E2 in men.
    Yes DHEA-S was low.

    Me- 191.7 ug/dl Range - 164.3-530

    Dr @ Defy said it should be in the low 500s for my age.

    My E2 only rose from 23-26 on clomid.

  9. #8
    Have you tried DHEA yet? Let me know how you react to it. Def not a supplement for me. If you do get make sure it’s micronized capsules

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JayLay777 View Post
    Have you tried DHEA yet? Let me know how you react to it. Def not a supplement for me. If you do get make sure it’s micronized capsules
    Nope! I'll get it in the mail this coming week along with everything else. I'm apprehensive to start the TRT portion, but i've tried everything and just want to feel good. After 3 years of low T I can't do it anymore. Recently, it has manifested in terms of muscular pain. Plus 7 years of going to the gym & i've really never built any muscle.

  11. #10
    Actually having 2nd thoughts. Think I might try the thyroid/dhea/stinging nettle & come off the clomid for a month or two before fully committing.

  12. #11
    Just got my last test numbers before making a decision (whilst on clomid 25 mg mwf) - the labs were taken monday so probably the lowest they would be.




    Albumin 5.0 G/DL 3.5 - 5.0 G/DL
    Testosterone, Total 700 NG/DL 270 - 1,070 NG/DL
    Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 86.3 NMOL/L 17.3 - 65.8 NMOL/L H
    Testosterone, Free 72.9 PG/ML 48.2 - 169.6 PG/ML
    Testosterone, Bioavailable 197.6 NG/DL 113.1 - 397.7 NG/DL
    Estradiol Level 41.3 PG/ML 0.0 - 39.8 PG/ML H * Not sensitive test*


    So can I get right off clomid or should I taper (2x this week, 1x next & then off). I still haven't made up my mind about going right into TRT. Might try the other meds 1st to see what it does.


    I start my thyroid/dhea/stinging nettle tomorrow.


    If I went right to TRT - would I need to let the clomid clear out of my system or could i just jump right in?

    Still very conflicted on what I should do!

  13. #12
    Is there any "rebound" with clomid where my levels would drop sharply after I stop taking it or will they stay elevated for some time. I know TRT has a big drop-off effect. Asking so I know when to do labs.

    Still conflicted haha on whether to load that needle.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Hess View Post
    Just got my last test numbers before making a decision (whilst on clomid 25 mg mwf) - the labs were taken monday so probably the lowest they would be.




    Albumin 5.0 G/DL 3.5 - 5.0 G/DL
    Testosterone, Total 700 NG/DL 270 - 1,070 NG/DL
    Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 86.3 NMOL/L 17.3 - 65.8 NMOL/L H
    Testosterone, Free 72.9 PG/ML 48.2 - 169.6 PG/ML
    Testosterone, Bioavailable 197.6 NG/DL 113.1 - 397.7 NG/DL
    Estradiol Level 41.3 PG/ML 0.0 - 39.8 PG/ML H * Not sensitive test*


    So can I get right off clomid or should I taper (2x this week, 1x next & then off). I still haven't made up my mind about going right into TRT. Might try the other meds 1st to see what it does.


    I start my thyroid/dhea/stinging nettle tomorrow.


    If I went right to TRT - would I need to let the clomid clear out of my system or could i just jump right in?

    Still very conflicted on what I should do!
    How do you feel?

    Also, why wasn't the Estradiol Sensitive test ran? I know Defy only orders that one, unless you had a written prescription, which it looks like you did seeing as the reference ranges look like Quest's.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by johndoesmith View Post
    How do you feel?

    Also, why wasn't the Estradiol Sensitive test ran? I know Defy only orders that one, unless you had a written prescription, which it looks like you did seeing as the reference ranges look like Quest's.
    I feel decent on clomid - very inconsistent. Estradiol was done @ my dr.s not Defy.

    The results from when Defy ran the sensitive test was 26.4 (8-35 range)

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