6 weeks in and not feeling better

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hebejebe

New Member
I started hcg mono therapy about 6 weeks ago. For the past 5 years, I've gained weight, felt tired, felt weak, sweat at anytime like I'm in a sauna, and lost my drive in life. Had the typical blood tests, with the typical answers from the docs. Test levels were on a bit of a roller coaster ranging from the mid 300's to low 500's then most recently to the high 200's. LH and FSH levels were tested and found low (0.8 LH and 2.2 FSH) but doc said it was ok. Obviously she, as an endo, was wrong. Found a doc recently who thought it was best to try hcg mono. I currently use 1000iu dosed 3x per week. Had labs done and the results were great.

TT - 730
FT - 162
E2 - 29
SHBG - 25

Im happy to see numbers up but, I still feel tired, maybe even more so than before. I feel as though I've put on 5-10 pounds, all of which is in my abdomen.

Im 40 yrs old 5'10" and 215lbs. I workout 5-7 days a week, weights and cardio. I've noticed that my endurance seems to be falling and strength is pretty much staying the same. I eat pretty clean as I avoid fatty, processed, and fast foods. I don't sleep very well. Either can't fall asleep or I can't stay asleep. I've had thyroid tests but the docs only ever test TSH and T4. I had RT3 tested once and it was on the higher end, maybe 3 or 4 points from being over the high limit. For supplements, I take Omega-3's, use a pre-workout, l-arginine, and whey protein isolate. I've tested morning and afternoon body temps usually come in under 98 degrees. I've heard that can be related to thyroid disorder. Had an a.m. cortisol test (blood) and it was 16 with the high end being 20. I'm kind of lost. With increasing my T levels I thought I would feel better but I don't. I plan on visiting my GP this week since she's wanting me to come in for a yearly physical. I'm going to DEMAND blood work but I'd like some opinions on what should be checked besides my cholesterol, which is all she ever seems to care about. It is usually high (low 300's).

I would appreciate any suggestions, comments, thoughts, etc.....
 
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OMI100

Member
And to add to ratbag:
#1 Thyroid site on the web is:
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/
#2 site is:
https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/
Spend some time looking around and reading a bit to understand what labs you need and what optimal range is.
Most DRs treat to ranges (if you are within the low and high range you are O.K.) and do not treat to symptoms. A world of difference between "being within range" and being "optimal" where most individuals feel the best.
 

hebejebe

New Member
Damn, you guys are quick!! Thanks for the replies. I would also like to add a few details. Growing up, I was active. Spent a lot of time working out, though I wasn't much of a gainer. Used to be able to eat pure garbage and never gain an ounce. As I hit my30's the weight started to pile on. It was a gradual increase but the last couple years have been the worst and I've tried pretty much everything to lose the weight but can't. I'm extremely intolerant to heat. I also sweat at even the thought of exercise. Back in September, one of two GP's I was seeing gave me androgel. After a month, TT was checked and actually dropped from 289 to 276. She increased dosage from 1 packet per day to 2 per day. After 2 days, I felt like I was king of the world for a few days. I slept like a baby, woke up energized and ready for anything. After those 2-3 days, I went back to feeling shitty. Back in 2016, I was taking an OTC T booster I bought from vitamin shop. It was their brand. Didn't take the full dose but after a month, noticed I felt better in the morning and wasn't relying on adderral to get me thru the day. I will take adderrall from time to time on those days when I just don't feel any energy. I do this maybe once or twice a month.

Typically, I'm moody, anxious, some what depressed, and unmotivated. I used to be the complete polar opposite. I was the life of the party. I'm also a former smoker. Not sure if that matters. Smoked for 17 years. Been smoke free for 9+ years. Supposedly my sister is hypothyroid. Not sure if she's on any meds for it. I limit my contact with her lol.....

just adding some more details. Thanks very much for the replies! Keep them coming!


quick edit: I have a full head of hair, plenty of body hair. A little bit of a mustache and goatee. Never had a beard or cool side burns. Noticed the other day, I don't have much hair from my ankles on up to about mid shin. That area used to be pretty hair. Not sure if this adds any clues.
 
ALong with the thyroid labs posted above, you need ALL five of those, BTW, do these:

Estradiol Ultra Sensitive LC/MS/MS (this is the ONLY test that should be used by men)
Iron, Serum
Ferritin
Iron TIBC
 

hebejebe

New Member
I have labs set for Monday. I should mention that the results posted were the morning after hCG injection. Does this matter? I usually don't have morning, and my sex drive hasn't changed. I see many say hCG mono isnt optimal. Should I add test to protocol? Should my numbers be higher?
 
HCG mono can work in guys like you that are apaprently secondary hypo as the testes aren't the source of the problem, you're pituitary is the problem. There's little reason right now to second guess anything, get your labs and let's talk when you have those!
 

Saul

Member
Most DRs treat to ranges (if you are within the low and high range you are O.K.) and do not treat to symptoms. A world of difference between "being within range" and being "optimal" where most individuals feel the best.

Off topic, but I agree with this. Very good point. I was right at the bottom of the low range or just below - could have gone either way, and Dr said that I will not feel good at that number even if 'just' in range.
 

1Draw

Member
HCG may be the culprit. Some do not respond well while injecting, I was one of them. Felt tired all the time even with good numbers. If it were me, I would follow suggestions on getting more detailed and correct blood work done and if everything is in range, switch to injections and drop the HCG for awhile and see how you feel. Much less chance of side effects IMHO on T therapy injections without HCG.
 

hebejebe

New Member
Sorry I'm late seeing your reply 1draw. I was able to get 'some' labs done. Doctor doesn't have a clue but I haven't found any other PCP that's any better. Feel ing major abdomen bloat, weight gain, and tired. Only real improvement I've had has been sex drive and performance. No morning wood though lol...
I'm so lost anymore...
 
Sorry I'm late seeing your reply 1draw. I was able to get 'some' labs done. Doctor doesn't have a clue but I haven't found any other PCP that's any better. Feel ing major abdomen bloat, weight gain, and tired. Only real improvement I've had has been sex drive and performance. No morning wood though lol...
I'm so lost anymore...

Don't give up yet! I am just like you, except I've been on and off TRT since Feb 2014. My best day on TRT was the 3rd or 4th day of androgel application. I woke up that morning FEELING GREAT...energy ALL DAY (just that one day)...after that its just been like without TRT.
 

Nashtide

Member
HCG may be the culprit. Some do not respond well while injecting, I was one of them. Felt tired all the time even with good numbers. If it were me, I would follow suggestions on getting more detailed and correct blood work done and if everything is in range, switch to injections and drop the HCG for awhile and see how you feel. Much less chance of side effects IMHO on T therapy injections without HCG.
this idea is news to me. I've heard great benefits from hcg and no benefits from hcg but I don't think I've heard negative side effects other than raising E2 which can be easily controlled. So are you saying hcg itself directly can cause negative sides or are these issues E2 related?
 

1Draw

Member
this idea is news to me. I've heard great benefits from hcg and no benefits from hcg but I don't think I've heard negative side effects other than raising E2 which can be easily controlled. So are you saying hcg itself directly can cause negative sides or are these issues E2 related?

Yep. Here are some - Headache, restlessness, tiredness....other serious side effects listed are swelling of the ankles/feet, mental/mood changes (e.g. depression, irritability).

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-11192/hcg-intramuscular/details

For me, I went for months with just being tired, allergy symptoms and I knew something was off. Stopped the HCG and noticed improvement in a few days. I'm one of the rare birds who cannot take a lot of medications including natural herbs. It's the card I've been dealt so, will just try to keep everything simple that I put in my body.

Other post...https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?12003&p=82431#post82431.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?11969&p=82202#post8
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?13069&p=92036#post92036
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?11957&p=81800#p

So yes HCG can cause negative sides although they are rare but, it does happen.
 

Nashtide

Member
Yep. Here are some - Headache, restlessness, tiredness....other serious side effects listed are swelling of the ankles/feet, mental/mood changes (e.g. depression, irritability).

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-11192/hcg-intramuscular/details

For me, I went for months with just being tired, allergy symptoms and I knew something was off. Stopped the HCG and noticed improvement in a few days. I'm one of the rare birds who cannot take a lot of medications including natural herbs. It's the card I've been dealt so, will just try to keep everything simple that I put in my body.

Other post...https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?12003&p=82431#post82431.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?11969&p=82202#post8
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?13069&p=92036#post92036
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?11957&p=81800#p

So yes HCG can cause negative sides although they are rare but, it does happen.
Thanks. I still wonder if many of these side effects are due to elevated E2 and not necessarily directly from hcg.
 

1Draw

Member
Thanks. I still wonder if many of these side effects are due to elevated E2 and not necessarily directly from hcg.

His E2 is 29 but, don't know if its the sensitive or regular test. There is only 1 sure way to know if its the HCG causing the sides is to stop taking it for a week or 2 and see how symptoms are.

Hebejebe needs a new doc and maybe needs to go on injections instead of HCG mono. Defy would be a good place to start. What he is doing now is not working so, why stay on that path?
 

Reason

Member
What’s your diet like, besides clean? High carb low fat can cause low energy and fatigue in some (myself included). It’s not always hormones.

You already mentioned sleep. Treat sleep as seriously as your treatment. Starting with light exposure in the morning and cutting out blue light exposure at night. Curb caffeine after 12pm. Practice sleep hygiene.

Are you training too much (rarely the case, people overestimate how hard they train, but worth asking)? Do you give yourself time to recover?
 
Treat sleep as seriously as your treatment. Starting with light exposure in the morning and cutting out blue light exposure at night. Curb caffeine after 12pm. Practice sleep hygiene.

Yes, Yes, Yes x 1000.

Sleep quality/duration is far too often overlooked and underappreciated. Without enough QUALITY sleep, our body just doesn't thrive...it's as simple as that. Everyone should view sleep as a vital nutrient, hormone, etc necessary for the body to function and thrive.

This is why untreated and undiagnosed sleep apnea is such a huge problem for many folks.
 
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