Am I having high estrogen symptoms?

Every time I increase my dose I start sweating a lot and feeling really warm in the first week, this is my first time decreasing my dose and the first time I didn't sweat and the first time I have felt colder since... I woke up this morning feeling cold and the last time I felt like that was before I started TRT when E2 was confirmed undetectable. I measured my body temps last 2 mornings and 97.3 waking and 98.6 afternoon. Dr. Crisler mentioned that TRT increases circulation to the extremities that has saved people's limbs from other medical conditions that affect blood flow. I wonder if my circulation has taken a hit due to decreasing my dosage. It at least sounds plausible.

A little update:

A week ago I lowered my weekly dose down from 100mg to 80mg (20mg EOD), now I know when you increase your dose it takes 4-6 weeks for you to build up the 5 half lives in your blood and am wanting to know how it works the other way around when you lower your dose?

I know it doesn't make sense for my doctor to run tests a week after lowering the dosage, but she was concerned with my symptoms and ran labs anyway. My TT before lowering my dose was 859 ng/dL and now a week later is 524 ng/dL (labs at 9:00am), is it still possible that my numbers could yet stabilize a little higher in 4-6 weeks? I feel a lot better the more time passes after lowering my dosage!

75mg once weekly put me at 531 ng/dL, so I would expect the same dosage 80mg EOD to put me at the 700's for the simple fact I'm injecting far more frequent.

I'm confused about your discussion of your dosage:

"100mg EOD", that's 3.5 doses/week=350/week.

"80 EOD" x3.5=280/wk.

vs

"75mg once weekly"


With your reduction in dosage, are you feeling any different?

Reading through the thread, the thing that pops into my mind is the possibility it is not Estrogen related. I'd just keep an open mind about other possibilities.

Blackhawk said:

I'm confused about your discussion of your dosage:

"100mg EOD", that's 3.5 doses/week=350/week.

"80 EOD" x3.5=280/wk.

vs

"75mg once weekly"


With your reduction in dosage, are you feeling any different?

Reading through the thread, the thing that pops into my mind is the possibility it is not Estrogen related. I'd just keep an open mind about other possibilities.

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Re edited post for dosage. I was suffering from lowered libido, softer erections, testicle shrinkage, fewer morning/night time erections, acne everywhere and I do mean everywhere, sleepiness, brain fog, anxiety and it just felt like TRT stopped working. A week later libido, erections are back, acne, sleepiness, anxiety and headaches are all gone. I'm beginning to feel the way I did before I made the change.

What shocked me is how far my T dropped in such a short amount of time.

Systemlord said:

A little update:

A week ago I lowered my weekly dose down from 100mg to 80mg (20mg EOD), now I know when you increase your dose it takes 4-6 weeks for you to build up the 5 half lives in your blood and am wanting to know how it works the other way around when you lower your dose?

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I would think the decay would be the same as the build up. The half life of every shot you took is still winding down.

Systemlord said:

snip...

I know it doesn't make sense for my doctor to run tests a week after lowering the dosage, but she was concerned with my symptoms and ran labs anyway. My TT before lowering my dose was 859 ng/dL and now a week later is 524 ng/dL (labs at 9:00am), is it still possible that my numbers could yet stabilize a little higher in 4-6 weeks? snip...

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I don't know why some around here flip out when one does bloods early. Sure it is not your steady state but is a snap shot on how things are progressing.
On your question I would say yes even though you reduced your weekly dose since it has not been 40 days you have not reached your steady state yet.

reference info:
Testosterone Cyp (Half life 8 days) - Steady state in 40 days
Arimidex (Half life 2 days) - Steady state in 10 days
HCG (Half life 2 days) - Steady state in 10 days.

Remember, 5 x half life of a medication = Steady state of that medication.

When you reach a steady state of a medication, you will have double the amount of milligrams in your system of the dose you are taking in-between each half life. It doesn't matter how you space out the dosages or how often you take it. For example, 1mg taken EOD, or 0.5mg taken everyday. It's still 1mg taken within one half life or Arimidex which is 2 days.

So another example is test cypionate. Doesn't matter if you take 100mg once per week or split that into 50mg twice per week or 14mg everyday. As long as it's 100mg within one half life, which is 8 days for test cyp. So by 5 half lives of the medication, which would be 40 days for test cyp, you will have double the amount of medication in your system. Which would be 200mg.

Just remember, whatever the dosage you are taking of a medication, after 5 half lives you will have double the amount of medication in your system compared to starting.


hth

Systemlord said:

Re edited post for dosage. I was suffering from lowered libido, softer erections, testicle shrinkage, fewer morning/night time erections, acne everywhere and I do mean everywhere, sleepiness, brain fog, anxiety and it just felt like TRT stopped working. A week later libido, erections are back, acne, sleepiness, anxiety and headaches are all gone. I'm beginning to feel the way I did before I made the change.

What shocked me is how far my T dropped in such a short amount of time.

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How are you feeling now? I found this thread interesting because I have been going through some similar symptoms and playing around with my protocol.

Mambo said:

How are you feeling now? I found this thread interesting because I have been going through some similar symptoms and playing around with my protocol.

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Feeling really good mentally and mediocre physically, sexually I'm dead.

I was forced to retreat to a previous protocol (50mg twice weekly) that didn't produce high estrogen until I can join Defy Medical, it's been 6 weeks and muscles and erections are getting softer even with a trough of 654 ng/dL which feels more like 300 ng/dL. The only time muscles and erections start getting down to business is 20mg EOD which sees similar numbers as now with a very different outcome that sees chest tightness, chest burning, anxiety, moodiness, bitchiness and all the classic symptoms of high estrogen. I'm forced to retreat to the 300 range in order to satisfy estrogen which is unacceptable.

I have absolutely no anxiety when estrogen when on this protocol and am as calm as a turtle, nothing bothers me. I believe that I hyper metabolize my free testosterone or perhaps I just don't have enough free testosterone injecting every 3.5 days, my financial situation is about to change in a couple of weeks or 1-2 months. I'll require an AI in the beginning until I can lose some weight and perhap remove the AI at a later date.

I've done all the hard work, 25mg EOD is too much (oily skin/acne), 15mg EOD is too little and 20mg EOD produces similar trough that I have now. My sweat spot lies somewhere in the middle together with an AI, I'll give HCG a try after I get dialed in for a few months. I want to be able to gauge how effective HCG really is for me.

I've done all the hard work, 25mg EOD is too much (oily skin/acne), 15mg EOD is too little and 20mg EOD produces similar trough that I have now. My sweat spot lies somewhere in the middle together with an AI, I'll give HCG a try after I get dialed in for a few months. I want to be able to gauge how effective HCG really is for me.

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For some reason I though you got this undercontrol with the thyroid meds. My memory is not getting any better on TRT.
Good to wait on the HCG until you have access to an AI. HCG will raise your E2 an it sounds like that would not be a good thing.

Here's hoping you can get into Defy soon.

FeelingLost said:

For some reason I though you got this undercontrol with the thyroid meds. My memory is not getting any better on TRT.
Good to wait on the HCG until you have access to an AI. HCG will raise your E2 an it sounds like that would not be a good thing.

Here's hoping you can get into Defy soon.

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My pre-TRT labs for thyroid was a TSH of .580, T4 (8.4) midrange and Free T4 1.2 below midrange with excellent body temperatures, I become slightly hyperthyroid in the first few weeks of a dosage increase reaching 99 degrees on some days.

those can be high estrogen symptoms for some.. depends how healthy you are you may not be able to tolerate higher e2 levels.. I used to tolerate higher e2 levels in the past without any problems pretty much.. but after I crashed my e2 I had same symptoms as you when my e2 got to 35+ zone.

Updates?

Is it possible to have high E2 symptoms without E2 being very high?

My E2 is 30pg/ml on the sensitive test and I have all the symptoms after my shot and the next day/days. Symptoms like: Bloated, puffy face, irritated, anxious, Angry (especially hours after my shot), headache, waves of random anxiety for no apparent reason etc.

Not my normal self. I have no reason to be anxious or full of anxiety. I'm 99% a chilled dude.

You could pull a Sensitive E2 of 20 and that can still be high, for you, especially if your SHBG is in that same range; Free E.

Vince Carter said:

You could pull a Sensitive E2 of 20 and that can still be high, for you, especially if your SHBG is in that same range; Free E.

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I was just about to post this. From what I understand low SHBG means a lot more free T and E, which means if you're registering with 30, you could be very high.

My E2 was 20 and SHBG was 19 prior to trt, I'm curious where I end up on my first round of labs.

Evilwhitey said:

I was just about to post this. From what I understand low SHBG means a lot more free T and E, which means if you're registering with 30, you could be very high.

My E2 was 20 and SHBG was 19 prior to trt, I'm curious where I end up on my first round of labs.

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Riun the test if its affordable for you "Estradiol, Free", run it alongside the LC/MS/MS

Jiu Jitsu Dude said:

Is it possible to have high E2 symptoms without E2 being very high?

My E2 is 30pg/ml on the sensitive test and I have all the symptoms after my shot and the next day/days. Symptoms like: Bloated, puffy face, irritated, anxious, Angry (especially hours after my shot), headache, waves of random anxiety for no apparent reason etc.

Not my normal self. I have no reason to be anxious or full of anxiety. I'm 99% a chilled dude.

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Remember, too, I assume you're testing in your trough correctly and as such you can see a certain number of E2 and think it's fine, whatever that means, but that's only the lowest point. Your symptoms would certainly indicate a huge swing in your E post injection.

Vince Carter said:

You could pull a Sensitive E2 of 20 and that can still be high, for you, especially if your SHBG is in that same range; Free E.

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Vince Carter said:

Remember, too, I assume you're testing in your trough correctly and as such you can see a certain number of E2 and think it's fine, whatever that means, but that's only the lowest point. Your symptoms would certainly indicate a huge swing in your E post injection.

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Yes
Thank you Vince. My SHBG is 43. But I swear this feels like the way you guys describe high E2 symptoms. I will also run the Free E2 test you mentioned. In my consult with Dr. Saya I think he said it was possible but I forget.

And another member mentioned that there are some studies that show how a person might develop "Adaptive Hypersensitivity" to E2 because our body could adapt to a low amount of E2 and then when a substantially higher (or even normal) level of E2 is created from the new TRT it may feel just like high E2 symptoms. And an AI might resolve it. It's all theory, not sure if it's even true but very interesting.

Jiu Jitsu Dude said:

Yes
Thank you Vince. My SHBG is 43. But I swear this feels like the way you guys describe high E2 symptoms. I will also run the Free E2 test you mentioned. In my consult with Dr. Saya I think he said it was possible but I forget.

And another member mentioned that there are some studies that show how a person might develop "Adaptive Hypersensitivity" to E2 because our body could adapt to a low amount of E2 and then when a substantially higher (or even normal) level of E2 is created from the new TRT it may feel just like high E2 symptoms. And an AI might resolve it. It's all theory, not sure if it's even true but very interesting.

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That's a pretty solid theory because we know it works the other way around when men spend years supraphysiological and lower the dosage for health concerns.

Well when you inject your e2 and everything else will spike.