1. #1
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    Need help getting right!

    Iíve been through the ringer it seems. It all started with taking pain meds for back at 28 yo then at 30 I feel really fatigued and low libido so got testosterone checked and I was at like 190 so I was put on test cyp 200 mg 10-14 days. After several months of feeling pretty great my wife finds out that it lowers sperm count and asked me to inquire with my general practitioner to see if there is any way to keep from losing a chance to have a kid. He says he is gonna refer me to an endo. I go to the appointment and itís a reproductive endocrinologist and the first thing he does is a semen analysis which came back 0. So he advised complete cessation of the testosterone and to start on 25mg of chlomid everyday. So far it has raised my testosterone up to the 500 range and my sa is back up to 11 million but, the problem is now I feel worse thank before I started the testosterone. I am very tired,canít sleep,slight ED and I would pretty much rather have a flat tire than have sex. I know this isnít normal at 30. I cut back on the chlomid to 25 mg eod on my own. Iíve done research for almost the past year and searched through What seems like hundreds of threads on here but havenít found any that seem to refer to my unique situation. Iím at the end of my rope here. I really wanna be able to conceive but at this point thatís not gonna happen if I canít get it to stay up or feel like doing anything. Please guys any help will be appreciated

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  3. #2
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Here's a good thread I would start with,
    Clomid: What Every Man Needs to Know

    https://www.excelmale.com/showthread...-Needs-to-Know
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

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    Please help! Feel worse than before I started any kind of protocol

    please help. I started out with semi low libido,pretty bad fatigue,brain fog and other symptoms. Had testosterone checked and was in the 190 range. General practitioner put me on test cyp 200 mg very 10-14 days. I felt great. My wife read that it causes fertility issues so I asked the doctor about any alternatives. He sent me to a reproductive endocrinologist and he put me in 25 mg of chlomid everyday. My test level went up to around 500 and my semen analysis went from 0 to 11 million. But, now I feel even worse. The libido is non existent I still have fatigue, have trouble sleeping, worse brain fog than ever. I cut the chlomid back to 25mg every other day about two weeks ago but no changes as of yet.can someone please give me some advice or a clue as to what may be wrong with my protocol? Should I drop chlomid altogether or should I get my e2 tested and see about adding an estrogen blocker? Do you think going back on trt with hcg would keep from losing my fertility? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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    Thanks. I read this thread before I posted. It dose have a lot of good info

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    What your doctor should have done was include HCG together with your TRT protocol, HCG mimics LH hormone that TRT greatly decreases and affects sperm count. HCG is used to counter TRT's negative effect on sperm production. The way you're feeling on clomid is a typical one, a lot of guys while having great numbers do not feel great on clomid. The fact that your doctor took you off TRT instead of giving you HCG tell's me you need another doctor, he can't help you because his knowledge is years behind.

    I also noticed you're not prescribed an AI, not many can handle 200mg weekly and not require an AI. Over time estrogen will start building up in your system and you'll feel horrible. You need to ditch both doctors, they sound like they have no clue what their doing!

    Read more here --> http://drjohncrisler.com/the-crisler...part-deux.html
    Last edited by Systemlord; 12-06-2017 at 05:41 PM.

  7. #6
    I agree with the first answer! Get back on TRT and split your dose over 2 shots Per week rather then once per week or once every 2 weeks. Also include HCG and a estrogen blocker if necessary (test sensitive estradiol).
    If your Dr doesnít play ball consider switching. I would suggest Defy medical theyíre prob one of the most knowledgeable in the field.

  8. #7
    Nobody ever feels good on a T dose every 10-14 days. Your doctor needs to read-up on the half-life of Test. A lot of guys never feel good on Clomid, either even with solid T numbers. Honestly, I would switch providers to someone familiar with modern protocols.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ERO View Post
    Nobody ever feels good on a T dose every 10-14 days. Your doctor needs to read-up on the half-life of Test. A lot of guys never feel good on Clomid, either even with solid T numbers. Honestly, I would switch providers to someone familiar with modern protocols.
    Thank you. I felt great on the test even every 10-14 days. After I stopped and started taking the chlomid. Thatís when I went down hill. My reproductive endocrinologist is only worried about getting my sperm count up. My general practitioner that prescribed the test is clueless to any kind of hormone replacement. I would love to find one that is knowledgeable but idk where one is in my area and didnít see any on the threads on here. A guy at gnc told me a place about an hour from me Iím gonna try to get blood drawn Saturday and see if my e2 is high or what. The endo is also an hour drive but my insurance wonít pay because he has it under fertility and the 400$ a month for blood and sa is killing me.

  10. #9
    Member FeelingLost's Avatar
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    Where do you live Rtb? Do you have a LabCorp in your town? If so go to DiscountLabs.com and just buy the tests you want. It's dirt cheap.
    Insurance companies don't like paying for Trt it can be done but you have to jump thru a lot of hoops and then you still endup with a doc that doesn't know what he is doing with a junk protocol.

    That said TRT really is not for making babies.

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    Thanks a lot man. This is the kind of info I was looking for. I have an appointment at another dr Saturday to get blood work done hopefully they are more knowledgeable about this type of thing. I really hate to get back on test unless the hcg will indeed keep my sperm count where it is or hopefully higher but, the way I feel on the chlomid I doubt there will be any baby making going on cuz I could care less about sex at the moment and when I do if something doesnít happen in 5 minutes it is over for me my man is out and Iíve never had that problem. Iíve got several ml of test left and 3 5,000 iu bottled of hcg I ordered from reliable rx. But Iím going to wait and see what the new dr can do for me before I start trying to treat myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FeelingLost View Post
    Where do you live Rtb? Do you have a LabCorp in your town? If so go to DiscountLabs.com and just buy the tests you want. It's dirt cheap.
    Insurance companies don't like paying for Trt it can be done but you have to jump thru a lot of hoops and then you still endup with a doc that doesn't know what he is doing with a junk protocol.

    That said TRT really is not for making babies.
    I live in south central Tennessee about an hour straight south from Nashville and about an hour north of Huntsville, Alabama so Iím sure the closest Labcorp would be in one of those towns which Iíve been driving to Huntsville to the endocrinologist anyway and the dr Iím going to Saturday is also in Huntsville but idk what theyíre gonna say about my bloodwork because taking the chlomid has my testosterone up around 500 so Iím afraid theyíre gonna say everything looks fine but I donít feel fine at all and my testosterone was below 200 before I started trt

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    Stevep another forum member lives North of Huntsville I don't want to say the town in the open forum. He and I are both Defy Med patients.
    You already know what trt does to you.
    I go to the appointment and it’s a reproductive endocrinologist and the first thing he does is a semen analysis which came back 0. So he advised complete cessation of the testosterone
    Maybe adding hcg will keep you at 11mil and maybe not.
    You need to decide how important babies are to you. It sounds like you can't afford to have your sperm frozen for a future date.

    Maybe you could try HCG mono if clomid isn't working. Libido and ED really are tough nuts to crack. I have been on TRT for 12 months and my ED and libido are at the exact same place they were before I started this journey.

  14. #13
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Here's my two cents. Inject 70mg of testosterone cyp and 500iu of HCG every 3 1/2 days and have sperm analysis.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Here's my two cents. Inject 70mg of testosterone cyp and 500iu of HCG every 3 1/2 days and have sperm analysis.
    Thanks. I thought about trying that. If hcg keeps everything going good I donít see why it wouldnít work.

  16. #15
    I tried clomid back in the day and felt terrible. Now I am on TRT with HCG and FSH to preserve fertility. TRT + HCG only had me subfertile. I am still due a sperm analysis. I end up postponing this because my wife got pregnant but miscarried at around 3 months. We are not sure if we want another baby but I like the idea of maintaining fertility. I will get a sperm analysis done soon and post the results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HealthMan View Post
    I tried clomid back in the day and felt terrible. Now I am on TRT with HCG and FSH to preserve fertility. TRT + HCG only had me subfertile. I am still due a sperm analysis. I end up postponing this because my wife got pregnant but miscarried at around 3 months. We are not sure if we want another baby but I like the idea of maintaining fertility. I will get a sperm analysis done soon and post the results.
    Please do. I would like to know how it turns out for you.

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rtbrannon View Post
    Iíve been through the ringer it seems. It all started with taking pain meds for back at 28 yo then at 30 I feel really fatigued and low libido so got testosterone checked and I was at like 190 so I was put on test cyp 200 mg 10-14 days. After several months of feeling pretty great my wife finds out that it lowers sperm count and asked me to inquire with my general practitioner to see if there is any way to keep from losing a chance to have a kid. He says he is gonna refer me to an endo. I go to the appointment and itís a reproductive endocrinologist and the first thing he does is a semen analysis which came back 0. So he advised complete cessation of the testosterone and to start on 25mg of chlomid everyday. So far it has raised my testosterone up to the 500 range and my sa is back up to 11 million but, the problem is now I feel worse thank before I started the testosterone. I am very tired,canít sleep,slight ED and I would pretty much rather have a flat tire than have sex. I know this isnít normal at 30. I cut back on the chlomid to 25 mg eod on my own. Iíve done research for almost the past year and searched through What seems like hundreds of threads on here but havenít found any that seem to refer to my unique situation. Iím at the end of my rope here. I really wanna be able to conceive but at this point thatís not gonna happen if I canít get it to stay up or feel like doing anything. Please guys any help will be appreciated
    Find a doctor who understands trt and combining the use of hcg/rfsh for preserving fertility in patients using exogenous testosterone, you deserve much better care!

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260550

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260550

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378070/

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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Find a doctor who understands trt and combining the use of hcg/rfsh for preserving fertility in patients using exogenous testosterone, you deserve much better care!

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260550

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260550

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378070/
    Thank you. Can I get in trouble for switching doctors too many times in a certain period of time? Would it be considered like dr shopping? I went and got blood drawn today. They said theyíll contact me within the week with results. The dr talked to many and is reluctant to prescribe test because Iím only thirty and itís a life long commitment. He mentioned maybe adding hcg to the chlomid im already on but, everything Iíve researched is saying that they shouldnít be taking together. Anyone have any info on these questions?

  20. #19
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    I would take one or the other but not both. Getting a doc to OK T injections at 30 can be quite the challenge.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rtbrannon View Post
    Thank you. Can I get in trouble for switching doctors too many times in a certain period of time? Would it be considered like dr shopping? I went and got blood drawn today. They said they’ll contact me within the week with results. The dr talked to many and is reluctant to prescribe test because I’m only thirty and it’s a life long commitment. He mentioned maybe adding hcg to the chlomid im already on but, everything I’ve researched is saying that they shouldn’t be taking together. Anyone have any info on these questions?
    You aren't doctor shopping. You have legitimate reasons for seeking competent medical care.
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

  22. #21
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoastWatcher View Post
    You aren't doctor shopping. You have legitimate reasons for seeking competent medical care.
    I agree there's nothing wrong with getting second opinions, I get them all the time. But I never tell the doctor that I'm seeing that I'm looking for someone to replace them. Play it smart don't upset your doctor it, doesn't get you ahead of the game.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rtbrannon View Post
    I’ve been through the ringer it seems. It all started with taking pain meds for back at 28 yo then at 30 I feel really fatigued and low libido so got testosterone checked and I was at like 190 so I was put on test cyp 200 mg 10-14 days. After several months of feeling pretty great my wife finds out that it lowers sperm count and asked me to inquire with my general practitioner to see if there is any way to keep from losing a chance to have a kid. He says he is gonna refer me to an endo. I go to the appointment and it’s a reproductive endocrinologist and the first thing he does is a semen analysis which came back 0. So he advised complete cessation of the testosterone and to start on 25mg of chlomid everyday. So far it has raised my testosterone up to the 500 range and my sa is back up to 11 million but, the problem is now I feel worse thank before I started the testosterone. I am very tired,can’t sleep,slight ED and I would pretty much rather have a flat tire than have sex. I know this isn’t normal at 30. I cut back on the chlomid to 25 mg eod on my own. I’ve done research for almost the past year and searched through What seems like hundreds of threads on here but haven’t found any that seem to refer to my unique situation. I’m at the end of my rope here. I really wanna be able to conceive but at this point that’s not gonna happen if I can’t get it to stay up or feel like doing anything. Please guys any help will be appreciated
    I went through the same exact thing. Going off the TRT and on to the Clomid was very rough. Terrible in fact. How long have you been on the clomid? If longer than 3 months, your swimmers should be back in business. To feel better you need to get on HCG - after a couple weeks of adding HCG to your clomid you can jump back on TRT - the HCG will preserve your swimmers and you will feel awesome again, and be able to perform in the sack and get your wife pregnant. Worked for me.

    (and don't worry about using clomid/HCG together. Lots of people online say don't mix but my urologist said they're mixed all the time and it's not a problem. Went fine for me. You do want to ditch the clomid once you're back on test)

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