I took a peek at my Labs

I checked the LabCorp website and saw my labs. I'm disappointed, my current protocol is 20mg of testosterone cypionate daily, 500iu of HCG every 3 1/2 days and 25mg of dhea daily'

T serum >1500 range 264-916
FT 39.4 range 6.6-18.1
dhea 228.6 range 48.9-344.2
estradiol 43.7 range 8.0-35.0
shbg 74.9 range 19.4-76.4

For whatever reason I feel great, physically mentally and sexually.

Hi Vince, How is your HCT holding up? Is the daily injections helping there?
Wow those are some big numbers. What are you thinking of trying next?

Vince said:

I checked the LabCorp website and saw my labs. I'm disappointed, my current protocol is 20mg of testosterone cypionate daily, 500iu of HCG every 3 1/2 days and 25mg of dhea daily'

T serum >1500 range 264-916
FT 39.4 range 6.6-18.1
dhea 228.6 range 48.9-344.2
estradiol 43.7 range 8.0-35.0
shbg 74.9 range 19.4-76.4

For whatever reason I feel great, physically mentally and sexually.

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Those are so out of whack for you and I know you're totally compliant and have all the timing down that I'm not going to even ask...I'd throw those out and retest.

This is one downside of a big change in protocol: it might require some time to fine tune. But if you are feeling great don’t feel discouraged. A reduction in your daily dosage should take care of it. Your FT is a massive number even with an almost out of range SHBG. If you have your albumin levels you can estimate you TT levels and work from there to try to figure out your dose adjustment. What was your SHBG levels before? Also curious about HCT. Best of luck Vince

Just for example: assuming an albumin level of 4.3 g/dl your TT should be 2150 ng/dl. If i remember correctly in your old protocol your TT was around 1200?
I don’t think your labs are wrong simply because all numbers make sense for a huge TT levels. FT up, E2 up, SHBG up. It would be unlikely for all your labs to be incorrect IMO.

Vince said:

I checked the LabCorp website and saw my labs. I'm disappointed, my current protocol is 20mg of testosterone cypionate daily, 500iu of HCG every 3 1/2 days and 25mg of dhea daily'

T serum >1500 range 264-916
FT 39.4 range 6.6-18.1
dhea 228.6 range 48.9-344.2
estradiol 43.7 range 8.0-35.0
shbg 74.9 range 19.4-76.4

For whatever reason I feel great, physically mentally and sexually.

Click to expand...

Are these the first labs since you switched to daily dosing? It appears that everyone who tries daily dosing has the same results... meaning that the TT and FT increase substantially compared to their previous protocol. I think it's because your labs are taken only 24 hrs from your last shot and this skews the results comparatively.

FeelingLost said:

Hi Vince, How is your HCT holding up? Is the daily injections helping there?
Wow those are some big numbers. What are you thinking of trying next?

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My HCT is good, 47.9 that's the reason I'm doing dailies

Vince Carter said:

Those are so out of whack for you and I know you're totally compliant and have all the timing down that I'm not going to even ask...I'd throw those out and retest.

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That's good advice, I did my labs on the morning of the 24th. I skipped my HCG on Thursday the day before my labs and of course I did my labs before I injected my T.

HealthMan said:

This is one downside of a big change in protocol: it might require some time to fine tune. But if you are feeling great don't feel discouraged. A reduction in your daily dosage should take care of it. Your FT is a massive number even with an almost out of range SHBG. If you have your albumin levels you can estimate you TT levels and work from there to try to figure out your dose adjustment. What was your SHBG levels before? Also curious about HCT. Best of luck Vince

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I'm at work today don't have my old labs with me. My albumin 4.1 on last Labs my shbg were in good range I'll check them when I get home.

HealthMan said:

Just for example: assuming an albumin level of 4.3 g/dl your TT should be 2150 ng/dl. If i remember correctly in your old protocol your TT was around 1200?
I don't think your labs are wrong simply because all numbers make sense for a huge TT levels. FT up, E2 up, SHBG up. It would be unlikely for all your labs to be incorrect IMO.

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That does make a lot of sense, I feel so good. I almost feel like keeping this protocol.

ratbag said:

Are these the first labs since you switched to daily dosing? It appears that everyone who tries daily dosing has the same results... meaning that the TT and FT increase substantially compared to their previous protocol. I think it's because your labs are taken only 24 hrs from your last shot and this skews the results comparatively.

Click to expand...

No I started 6 weeks before my old Labs and I was injected 22 mg daily, I believe my T levels were 1300 something

My MD was a big believer in TT being way over range and had me there for a long time. But I had read on numerous sites that some feel just as good with TT that is in range with some reporting that they were low in range, yet they felt great. I thought this info was interesting and thought I'd never know until I tried it and I did... I'm now on 35mg Test E3.5D (70mg per week) and 500iu HCG E3.5D and my TT is 700 with FT being at the very top of range and I feel as good as I did on a much larger dose. I know this doesn't work for everyone but I'm glad I tried it. It brought down my HCT and the other benefit is my labs now show in range and when other MD's see them they don't realise I'm on TRT.

ratbag said:

My MD was a big believer in TT being way over range and had me there for a long time. But I had read on numerous sites that some feel just as good with TT that is in range with some reporting that they were low in range, yet they felt great. I thought this info was interesting and thought I'd never know until I tried it and I did... I'm now on 35mg Test E3.5D (70mg per week) and 500iu HCG E3.5D and my TT is 700 with FT being at the very top of range and I feel as good as I did on a much larger dose. I know this doesn't work for everyone but I'm glad I tried it. It brought down my HCT and the other benefit is my labs now show in range and when other MD's see them they don't realise I'm on TRT.

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That is very interesting, I have read that others have said the same thing. I know in the last few months I've had a surge in energy. But I really don't know if it's because of my higher testosterone levels.

Vince said:

That does make a lot of sense, I feel so good. I almost feel like keeping this protocol.

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Hi Vince please excuse my rookie question.
If your blood test numbers are accurate when do you leave the world of TRT and entered the world of steroid use/abuse?
Over time will you not hurt yourself in the long run? The heroin junkie always feels wonderful until one day he is found dead.

FeelingLost said:

Hi Vince please excuse my rookie question.
If your blood test numbers are accurate have not left the world of TRT and entered the world of steroid use/abuse?
Over time will you not hurt yourself in the long run? The heroin junkie always feels wonderful until one day he is found dead.

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How true, even though I feel so good I will not keep this protocol. I will schedule a consultation and follow my new protocol.

user_joe said:

What exactly is it that you think will happen if you keep your regimen? Your TT could be 1501. Could be 1700.

Some may just consider it unnecessaru risk, but I'd probably just monitor lipids closely. I've not really seen anything very compelling that made me think TT 20-30% above natural levels is bad for your health. I'm open minded to hearing about it though.

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I understand what you're saying, my lipid panel has always looked good. I really don't think it's necessary for me to have that high of testosterone levels. Next week I will set up a consultation and follow my follow my doctor's advice. I will ask the question, what might happened if I leave my levels alone.

Vince
thats too high. I read an interesting study to where those getting T replacement and staying within mid to upper mid range resulted in lower LDL cholesterol and slightly higher HDL.
when levels went to top of range and above the reference range, LDL levels increases and HDL decreased. When your levels are that high, you are basically doing a steroid cycle. High T levels also damage the lining of your artery walls which makes arteries less flexible as well as increase red blood cells that thicken your blood. Its a bad idea.
of course people feel good when T levels are through the roof, however, its a slippery slope.
finally, like a steroid cycle, HIGH T levels will increase the size of your heart.

Vince said:

No I started 6 weeks before my old Labs and I was injected 22 mg daily, I believe my T levels were 1300 something

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You were injecting 22mg daily for 6 weeks on your previous protocol than reduced your dose by only 2mg/day to 20mg daily and are posting over the range numbers. Simple solution you like daily so just lower your dose further 16mg daily? Even than I would still take VC advice and retest to be sure of your labs being accurate before adjusting protocol.

user_joe said:

What exactly is it that you think will happen if you keep your regimen? Your TT could be 1501. Could be 1700.

Some may just consider it unnecessaru risk, but I’d probably just monitor lipids closely. I’ve not really seen anything very compelling that made me think TT 20-30% above natural levels is bad for your health. I’m open minded to hearing about it though.

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Sure ones levels could be 1501 or 1700 and you are right that there is not strong evidence in the literature to support that having ones TT 20-30% above range causing health issues other than possibly negatively affecting lipids (decrease hdl/increase ldl), elevated hematocrit (which can be managed with donating blood), excess estradiol (which can be controlled with a.i) but excess testosterone levels above the physiological range are not needed for one to experience improvements in low t symptoms. Trt is just that testosterone replacement therapy designed to replace a males levels into the normal physiological range in order to treat low t symptoms and improve ones physical/mental well being whether that is attaining mid-normal or high/normal physiological testosterone levels not supra-physiological levels. Sure some may argue that they have more energy/better mood when raising levels into the supra-physiological range and I have no issue with that but if one claims to need to be over the top end of the physiological levels to experience benefits from having low t than I would argue that they should be looking into thyroid/adrenal/diet/sleep/stress related factors and not testosterone as supra-physiological levels are in no way needed to experience symptom improvement/relief of low t symptoms (the literature states this). Of course when one is injecting less frequently (once weekly or once every 2 weeks) with larger doses they will experience a supra-physiological peak the first few days after injection but their test levels will not remain in the supra-physiological range. Vinces levels are >1500 and he is injecting daily so his peaks/troughs are minimal hence his overall daily levels are over the top end of the range and those high levels are not needed. He felt great which he raved about on his older protocol of injecting every 3.5 days posting 1000+ trough. As far as I am concerned having ones levels in the supra-physiological range steady state in no way now how relates to trt replacement doses regardless of whether ones health markers are good and in range.The only truly main benefit of having excess testosterone levels is increasing ones muscle mass/strength period!

lexer said:

Vince
thats too high. I read an interesting study to where those getting T replacement and staying within mid to upper mid range resulted in lower LDL cholesterol and slightly higher HDL.
when levels went to top of range and above the reference range, LDL levels increases and HDL decreased. When your levels are that high, you are basically doing a steroid cycle. High T levels also damage the lining of your artery walls which makes arteries less flexible as well as increase red blood cells that thicken your blood. Its a bad idea.
of course people feel good when T levels are through the roof, however, its a slippery slope.
finally, like a steroid cycle, HIGH T levels will increase the size of your heart.

Click to expand...