Is it possible to be on a diet to lose belly fat and increase exersize to build muscle?

FeelingLost · Nov 17, 2017

SoCal Guy said:
it will definitely be hard to lose belly fat and gain muscle at the same time. It's possible, but not easy. And I think you're wise to focus on making sure you're eating enough protein.

But you really won't be losing belly fat as long as you're eating 156 grams of carbs a day. (And that's before adding oatmeal with honey.) And you might not gain as much muscle as you could without eating more meat than you have been.

I'm a big fan of Ted Naiman's. His chart makes it easy to understand where fat loss happens and where fat gain happens:

Basically, with the chart is showing is that you lose fat when you keep protein high and hold down energy sources. You can get energy from starches and sugars, or you can get energy from fat. So if you keep protein high, and fat and carbs low, you start to approach the "PSMF" side. (Protein-sparing modified fast -- quite extreme, and basically the fastest way you can lose weight while minimizing muscle loss.) So where does the energy/calories you need come from? From your stored fat -- but only if your insulin level is low enough to allow your fat cells to release fat. Otherwise you just crash and can't really function.

(But your insulin level won't be low unless you've been controlling carb intake long enough to permit it to have fallen.)

As you move to the right on the chart, you increase carbs or increase fat content in your diet without increasing protein proportionately. Weight loss slows, then stops.

Thanks SoCalGuy, I like that chart I'm printing it now.
I hear what you are saying on the carbs from veggies. If my next attempt fails to give me results I will try keto.

I am pretty sure I will have motility issues with little to no fiber/roughage to help move things along.
With a 64 year old colin food thru the gut just doesn't move like it did when I was 30 something.

madman · Nov 18, 2017

SoCal Guy said:
it will definitely be hard to lose belly fat and gain muscle at the same time. It's possible, but not easy. And I think you're wise to focus on making sure you're eating enough protein.

But you really won't be losing belly fat as long as you're eating 156 grams of carbs a day. (And that's before adding oatmeal with honey.) And you might not gain as much muscle as you could without eating more meat than you have been.
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Following low carb is not a must to lose belly fat it comes down to ones genetics and insulin sensitivity as there are many who can eat a fair amount of complex carbs from low g.i. starches and still get lean/develop a six pack and believe it or not some can even consume higher g.i. carbs and stay lean.

JV63 · Nov 22, 2017

FeelingLost, I may have missed it, but are you diabetic or taking any bg lowering drugs or supplements? You shouldn't be going hypo if not. I have dealt with people who said they felt like their blood sugar was low, but when I tested them it was well within range.
Some people that change their diet to a lower less processed carb diet do have an adjustment period to their lower but healthy numbers and feel hypo symptoms. A monitor could help you to make sure.
You are doing the most important thing in getting yourself healthy. Although we would all like to look greek gods, that stomach/waist fat is very stubborn and will be the last to go, so don't become discouraged.

FeelingLost · Nov 22, 2017

JV63 said:
FeelingLost, I may have missed it, but are you diabetic or taking any bg lowering drugs or supplements? You shouldn't be going hypo if not. I have dealt with people who said they felt like their blood sugar was low, but when I tested them it was well within range.
Some people that change their diet to a lower less processed carb diet do have an adjustment period to their lower but healthy numbers and feel hypo symptoms. A monitor could help you to make sure.
You are doing the most important thing in getting yourself healthy. Although we would all like to look greek gods, that stomach/waist fat is very stubborn and will be the last to go, so don't become discouraged.

Hi JV, Thank you for your post. I am not diabetic. In fact I just got my A1c down to 5.5
Now my HDL is still to low and my LDL is still to high and my Glucose Serum is also too high.

All that doesn't relate to burning up all your sugar reserves(Hypoglycemia episode) when exersizing does it?
Or am I defining a Hypoglycemia episode wrong?

jasinc81 · Nov 22, 2017

Careful not to inflict over-training. This was one of the main reasons I went on TRT. I was on keto for over a year and lost up to 50 lbs, but couldn't lose that last 10-15 lbs of fat around my waist. I kept cutting calories, increasing exercise, and eventually had to see the Dr. My T levels were in the 100's and I've been recovering ever since (over a year now). I went in to have my RMR tested a couple times, and found out I had severe metabolic damage. The readings came in at 1500-1700 calories a day, which is very low for someone at 200# and 12-15%. So, I suggest you get your RMR tested to see where your baseline is. You may be overestimating how many calories you burn. Using those online calculators, I thought mine was around 2300 so I was eating way too much. Also, once you find your RMR, maybe take a break from working out. I know that's easier said than done, but determine your maintenance and eat at that a couple weeks. It will help your body reset and get out of starvation mode. Your adrenals may be shot from dieting and overtraining, which may be causing high levels of cortisol and fat gain.

When it comes to diets, I have tried about every combination out there and have felt the best when I eat low carb during the week (less than 75g a day) and then eat higher carbs on the weekends (over 200g). My protein stays the same, but I move the fat up or down. I feel this gives me the best levels of energy and prevents water retention and bloating while allowing my workouts to feel great. I try and do my heavier lifting early in the week (chest, legs, deads, etc) when I have a lot of glycogen stored, and focus on isolation exercises later in the week (arms, shoulders, etc).

FeelingLost · Nov 22, 2017

jasinc81 said:
Careful not to inflict over-training. This was one of the main reasons I went on TRT. I was on keto for over a year and lost up to 50 lbs, but couldn't lose that last 10-15 lbs of fat around my waist. I kept cutting calories, increasing exercise, and eventually had to see the Dr. My T levels were in the 100's and I've been recovering ever since (over a year now). I went in to have my RMR tested a couple times, and found out I had severe metabolic damage. The readings came in at 1500-1700 calories a day, which is very low for someone at 200# and 12-15%. So, I suggest you get your RMR tested to see where your baseline is. You may be overestimating how many calories you burn. Using those online calculators, I thought mine was around 2300 so I was eating way too much. Also, once you find your RMR, maybe take a break from working out. I know that's easier said than done, but determine your maintenance and eat at that a couple weeks. It will help your body reset and get out of starvation mode. Your adrenals may be shot from dieting and overtraining, which may be causing high levels of cortisol and fat gain.

When it comes to diets, I have tried about every combination out there and have felt the best when I eat low carb during the week (less than 75g a day) and then eat higher carbs on the weekends (over 200g). My protein stays the same, but I move the fat up or down. I feel this gives me the best levels of energy and prevents water retention and bloating while allowing my workouts to feel great. I try and do my heavier lifting early in the week (chest, legs, deads, etc) when I have a lot of glycogen stored, and focus on isolation exercises later in the week (arms, shoulders, etc).

Hi jasinc81 I like your diet plan and may try that. Do you stay low on the GI when sellecting veggies? Can you recommend some good fats.

I don't think I am over exersizing each muscle group gets a full 48 hours to rest and recoup except my legs. I have a leg/abs day at the gym but I also ride a mtn bike 3-4 days a week 14-20 easy miles.

jasinc81 · Nov 22, 2017

FeelingLost said:
Hi jasinc81 I like your diet plan and may try that. Do you stay low on the GI when sellecting veggies? Can you recommend some good fats.

I don't think I am over exersizing each muscle group gets a full 48 hours to rest and recoup except my legs. I have a leg/abs day at the gym but I also ride a mtn bike 3-4 days a week 14-20 easy miles.

I generally eat broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, mushrooms, asparagus, celery, spinach, and a few carrots on my low carbs days. I also am addicted to avocados, so my meals are based around that. On my high carbs days I add steel cut oats with raspberries & blackberries, sweet potatoes, brown rice, and quinoa. I try to stay clear of high FODMAP foods like gluten and apples because they upset my stomach and make me extremely gassy.

As for fats, I get them from eggs, avocados, coconut oil, olive oil, almonds, beef and pork. I love celery with almond butter (pure, no additives or sugar) as a snack. I tend to stay away from supplements like whey, but when I'm in a pinch I'll have a protein shake in-between meals.

What I have found with this eating plan, is I get to enjoy all the foods I like. For example, when I did Keto, I LOVED to eat lettuce-wrapped bacon cheeseburgers and polish sausage, but missed some fruits and oatmeal. On the contrary, when on a lower fat diet, cheeseburgers and polish sausage take up a majority of my fat macros. Now, I can eat my cheeseburgers during the week and enjoy oatmeal on the weekends. Takes away the restrictions and allows me to train hard without the fatigue of low carb. I also may have a "cheat meal" occasionally to keep my sanity but it's rare as I don't really crave things like pizza, chocolate, etc. (except halo top ice cream)

Even though you may not "feel" like you're over-training, since your body is in a constant calorie restriction, it's basically under stress. You could even try reverse-dieting for a month by slowly adding calories until you reach maintenance. Run this for awhile and then go back into a caloric deficit. I've been trying to "heal" my adrenals for the past 6 months by reducing cardio, eating maintenance, and restricting stimulants like caffeine. I can already tell the difference, but your body takes some time to recover.

Also, if I remember correctly, you are taking the gel for TRT? I was on that for 3 months and instantly gained 3 inches to my waist and added 15-20 lbs. I've been on injectables/HCG for 3 weeks and have already noticed my bloating/water retention has been reduced. Just something to consider....I know everyone is different, but I didn't respond well to the gel treatment.

FeelingLost · Nov 22, 2017

Wow excellent post jasinc81 thank you for all the info.
I have been on Gel/cream for 11 months so most of the bad side effects(water, acne, oily skin, high E2 and prolactin) have come and gone. I am having trouble reaching a therapeutic T lvl with the 20% compounding cream for me it is no where near as good as brand named Gels. My next consult is this Friday they may put me on injections as well. I was really hoping the creams were going to work.

jasinc81 · Nov 23, 2017

FeelingLost said:
Wow excellent post jasinc81 thank you for all the info.
I have been on Gel/cream for 11 months so most of the bad side effects(water, acne, oily skin, high E2 and prolactin) have come and gone. I am having trouble reaching a therapeutic T lvl with the 20% compounding cream for me it is no where near as good as brand named Gels. My next consult is this Friday they may put me on injections as well. I was really hoping the creams were going to work.

Thanks! Any questions, please let me know. I just don't want you to fall down the same trap I did. I was so obsessed with obtaining and maintaining that "six pack" that I caused a lot of damage. I too thought I could just eat less and exercise more, but it's not quite that easy. Sometimes less is more. The body adapts to so many things that you have to keep it guessing.

My readings on the gel (Fortesta) were very high (over 1500), but my E2 was next to nothing and I still felt like garbage. I called Defy and they switched me to injections. So far I feel better, starting to get some libido back, and my weight has stabilized. Hopefully the blood tests come back normal next month. Best of luck to you!

FeelingLost · Nov 23, 2017

jasinc81 said:
Thanks! Any questions, please let me know. I just don't want you to fall down the same trap I did. I was so obsessed with obtaining and maintaining that "six pack" that I caused a lot of damage. I too thought I could just eat less and exercise more, but it's not quite that easy. Sometimes less is more. The body adapts to so many things that you have to keep it guessing.

My readings on the gel (Fortesta) were very high (over 1500), but my E2 was next to nothing and I still felt like garbage. I called Defy and they switched me to injections. So far I feel better, starting to get some libido back, and my weight has stabilized. Hopefully the blood tests come back normal next month. Best of luck to you!

I eat and love most of the things you've listed except I've not tried avocados. They sound interesting. The only time I believe I've eaten one is at the local mexican restaurant when the make avocado guacamole as you watch. What are some of your favorite ways to eat avocado's I'd like to pict a few up the next time I am at the grocery.

jasinc81 · Nov 23, 2017

I love to just slice up half an avocado and put it on top of my egg whites and spinach I have for breakfast. I then put some truffle salt or old bay seasoning on it...very delicious. The other half I put in a sealed container and have it for lunch. I make tuna salad with it, mashed avocado, 2 hard boiled eggs, pickle, 1 tbsp of olive oil mayo, packet of tuna, and some mustard. I’ll usually eat that right out of the bowl or put on a lettuce wrap. During the summer I will grill them up. Just slice in half, brush with olive oil, salt and pepper, and grill face down for a few minutes. There are tons of avocado recipes online...but I usually eat the same thing everyday

OMI100 · Nov 26, 2017

Get a copy of "The Secret Life of Fat: The Science Behind the Body's Least Understood Organ and What It Means for You". An utterly amazing look at FAT and what science knows about it. NOT A DIET BOOK. Let me say again NOT A DIET BOOK but the information in it helps explain why some people can loose weight without any problems and others struggle. I posted a review here:
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...east-Understood-Organ-and-What-It-Means-for-Y

Sakuraba39 · Nov 27, 2017

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664115/

FeelingLost · Nov 27, 2017

Sakuraba39 said:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664115/

Hi Sakuraba, Thanks for joining in the discussion.
What does an article/study on High Ratio of Triglycerides to HDL-Cholesterol Predicts Extensive Coronary Disease do for me?

Here's a quick peak at my lipids. I'm not sure how to do the ratio of tri and HDL like the article talks about.
My blood pressure is 120/72 with no blood pressure drugs, Resting HR 55. I don't think I have any coronary issues.

Sakuraba39 · Nov 27, 2017

Well, your ratio is at 2. Which is not very good. Ideal is about 1.5 to low 1s. Two or over is leading into MI territory.

Also, you're not going to lose belly fat with that diet....breads, pears, grapefruit juice, honey smoked anything, corn on the cob, potatoes...eating the bulk of your fuel at night.

Sakuraba39 · Nov 27, 2017

SoCal Guy has the right idea. Start following Ted Naiman, Ivor Cummings and Vinnie Tortorich (among others) on twitter. Eat more fats. Stop counting calories like you're a female fitness contestant.

FeelingLost · Nov 27, 2017

Sakuraba39 said:
Well, your ratio is at 2. Which is not very good. Ideal is about 1.5 to low 1s. Two or over is leading into MI territory.

Also, you're not going to lose belly fat with that diet....breads, pears, grapefruit juice, honey smoked anything, corn on the cob, potatoes...eating the bulk of your fuel at night.

Only HDL and LDL have gotten worse since I cleaned up my diet and increased daily exersize. I am assuming the extra T in my blood is the cause for the HDL decrease and LDL increase. Can we use that ratio if we are on TRT it seems to have a huge negative effect.

I believe Vince with his Ketosis diet is the only blood test I have seen here on the forum with good HDL LDL numbers.
Using one of those cheap plastic calipers bodyfat gauges I am getting a belly fat reading of 12% as of today. I have less than 1/2 an inch of fat covering my abs so it is going down ever so slowly.

I have stopped counting calories and I am eating more. I have not gotten dizzy or had the shakes at the gym since. I have put on an additional 2# but it is not in my stomach.

FeelingLost · Nov 27, 2017

Sakuraba39 said:
SoCal Guy has the right idea. Start following Ted Naiman, Ivor Cummings and Vinnie Tortorich (among others) on twitter. Eat more fats. Stop counting calories like you're a female fitness contestant.

Thank you I will look these guys up. I did buy an book Burn Fat with the metabolic blowtorch diet by J Cambell and Jim Brown.
Haven't read it yet had company over the holidays.

To learn about ketosis I've been watching Dr Eric Berg and Thomas DeLauer's YT channels.

Brettski99 · Jan 22, 2018

Did you make any progress on the fat loss? If so what seemed to work best?

Is it possible to be on a diet to lose belly fat and increase exersize to build muscle?

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