Switch to Androgel?

Hey guys,

As an update from my previous post I got the TRT and it has helped. It only brought me from about 400 to 496 so a little disappointed there. I also face unpleasant valleys with it. That's extra unfortunate as mood was one of the major reasons I sought it out. Conversely my friend got the equivalent gel (I'm on the 2 weeks injections) and he shot from 29x to 8xx. Given that and my sensitivity to thew valleys, is the gel something I may want to try out? I feel the daily dosing will keep me even, especially as far as mood.

Thoughts? Especially from anyone actually using it.

TIA!

One injection every 2 weeks?

Saul said:

One injection every 2 weeks?

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Yes correct.

Inject more frequently (every 3.5 days is a good starting point). Gels and creams are a lot of work and in my case absorption was poor and irregular. Plus you have to worry about not to contaminate your wife/kids. Not worth it in my opinion.

An injection every two weeks tells us one thing: your doctor doesn't understand the half-life of the drug he is prescribing. Testosterone clears the body at a rate such that by the end of two weeks you have nothing left in your system. There is quality, peer-reviewed literature that tells doctors that - at the very least - injections should be given weekly. Even that has been shown to be an unreliable protocol; smaller, more frequent injections of testosterone work. The proof can be found here at EM. Twice weekly, every other day, or (as some of us do) daily injections work.

Injections didn't fail you, your doctor failed you. You deserve better care.

CoastWatcher said:

An injection every two weeks tells us one thing: your doctor doesn't understand the half-life of the drug he is prescribing. Testosterone clears the body at a rate such that by the end of two weeks you have nothing left in your system. There is quality, peer-reviewed literature that tells doctors that - at the very least - injections should be given weekly. Even that has been shown to be an unreliable protocol; smaller, more frequent injections of testosterone work. The proof can be found here at EM. Twice weekly, every other day, or (as some of us do) daily injections work.

Injections didn't fail you, your doctor failed you. You deserve better care.

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Well said!

Do you do your own injections? If you do, try twice a week or every week. If you don't, can you find another doc or, try out the Androgel. I'm running at 1300 on it so for some people, it'll work.

O.K. I am one of the few that uses compounded T cream.
I get it from EmpowerRX with a script from my DR.
Self pay so I don't have to go through all the BS with my insurance company.
I get 200mg/ml times 30 ml for around $65 with shipping included.
I use a 1/2ml per day (about a 1/4 teaspoon) under my arm near my arm pit.
so a little over $30/month.
Just did labs.
Total T at 778 (264-916)
Free T direct at 10.2 (6.6-18.1)

Hey guys,

I sort of figured it was the timing causing some of the drop. I'm not super fond of injecting so upping that isn't particularly appealing to me (again just a personal thing, not a universal one). I really like the 3 months injections done most commonly around the world but think it is brand new here.

Orrin/Henry,

Do you FEEL that difference with the gel? The numbers are high but wondering if you feel that way. As far as hassle it actually seems very simple like putting my deodorant and body spray on every day - is it somehow more complicated than that? I am hopefully finishing a divorce soon so no wife or kids. But even when that's an issue everything I have read says give it a time to absorb then clean the area and all is well. Is that also inaccurate?

Thanks guys for all your input.

Just because you specifically said Androgel: One thing not discussed here that I had a problem with Andro 1.62 was the cost. Insurance was picking up 50% but I was still doling out $140(?) every two weeks, that's as long as the bottle lasted me and that was 3 pumps daily. I don't know if you've considered the costs or have an affordability issue there.

A compounded cream would be a much more viable route to go with than BigPharma's Androgel 1.62

Vince is right, Androgel is very expensive. My company covers it 100% so I'm cool with it but if it didn't, I would have gone injection. I actually did injections for a while and then switched to gel. I got tired of injecting. I hit 1440 on injections.

About the numbers, I honestly don't feel the difference between 600-1400. I've played with all of them and don't feel it. If I didn't see the numbers, I would not have noticed. The only reason I haven't lowered my dose is that I haven't run into any side effects But once I see some crazy bloodwork or run into some problems, I'm dropping the dose down.

If Androgel is too high check on Fortesta generic. I get better results with it and my insurance likes it.

StewDoigg said:

Hey guys,

I sort of figured it was the timing causing some of the drop. I'm not super fond of injecting so upping that isn't particularly appealing to me (again just a personal thing, not a universal one). I really like the 3 months injections done most commonly around the world but think it is brand new here.



Thanks guys for all your input.

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You might re-consider on injections. IMO, that is the best method to introduce T into your system. As a baseline, no one likes sticking a metal shaft in their body - especially me. But, I recently started subQ every three days into abdomen or belly side fat and it is really easy. Use a small needle (I use 27 G or 28 G) and it is for the most part painless and very little impact on body. The needle diameter is so small, it is not traumatic and the amount you inject is very small make it easier. It is also more closely mimics the T profile that should be created by the body. If you did it for 10 shots your needle apprehension would be gone - mine is and was a guy that would get light headed for a blood draw or flu shot in the past.

The cost is also reasonable. I buy 10 ml of test C for about $55 cash at a local pharmacy and that is good for 2 months and I throw the bottle out and there is still a 1/4 left.

Good luck.

Saul said:

You might re-consider on injections. IMO, that is the best method to introduce T into your system. As a baseline, no one likes sticking a metal shaft in their body - especially me. But, I recently started subQ every three days into abdomen or belly side fat and it is really easy. Use a small needle (I use 27 G or 28 G) and it is for the most part painless and very little impact on body. The needle diameter is so small, it is not traumatic and the amount you inject is very small make it easier. It is also more closely mimics the T profile that should be created by the body. If you did it for 10 shots your needle apprehension would be gone - mine is and was a guy that would get light headed for a blood draw or flu shot in the past. Good luck.

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Have you had an issues drawing the Test with a 27G or smaller needle?

I've used a 27g 1/2 for 4-5 months and its a breeze. I haven't timed it, but I would guess 10 sec. or so to fill and 5 sec. to inject.

TheDude said:

Have you had an issues drawing the Test with a 27G or smaller needle?

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I have drawn with 25 G, 28G and 27 G. With the 28 and 27 it is slow - like maybe 1 minute extra to draw but I don't find that to be a problem. A minute out of my day every 3rd day does not affect my life. I changed from 28 G to 27G and like the 27 better but the 28 worked fine too. They are almost the same. 28 was too small for me and since the syringe was only 1/2 ml total volume, it was flimsy. I like the 27 G, 1/2" needle, 1 ml volume syringe as a compromise between 25G and 30G. Very small needle, not too much extra time to fill or inject. I inject slow to allow the T to seep out into the fat - I don't like to inject fast. Slow and easy - IMO less damage to injection site and I have had no pain or bumps. I like BD brand needles/syringes.
.
I also like the small needle because it does less damage to bottle rubber seal.
.
Also, if you inject everyday, then you draw less with each injection making use of even smaller needles reasonable. There is also the injection, which is also harder with a larger gauge needle. I honestly don't know how people use a 30G or 31G with the test oil but many do. Or you can back fill the syringe.

Saul said:

You might re-consider on injections. IMO, that is the best method to introduce T into your system. As a baseline, no one likes sticking a metal shaft in their body - especially me. But, I recently started subQ every three days into abdomen or belly side fat and it is really easy. Use a small needle (I use 27 G or 28 G) and it is for the most part painless and very little impact on body. The needle diameter is so small, it is not traumatic and the amount you inject is very small make it easier. It is also more closely mimics the T profile that should be created by the body. If you did it for 10 shots your needle apprehension would be gone - mine is and was a guy that would get light headed for a blood draw or flu shot in the past.

The cost is also reasonable. I buy 10 ml of test C for about $55 cash at a local pharmacy and that is good for 2 months and I throw the bottle out and there is still a 1/4 left.

Good luck.

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Something my doc told me that other day made me think....

He said that Androgel was the best method to introduce T. Here's his opinion....and it's rally got me thinking

He said that it matches a person's natural rhythm (high early and lowers throughout the day) versus T injection which decays at a slower rate. Most of the time, a person on T stays high, unless they inject once a week. It'll lower throughout the week while Androgel lowers throughout the day. If you inject closer (like every day or 3x a week, the ester (cypionate or enanthate) still has a slow rate of decay. You stay high since you're always injecting that slow acting ester versus Androgel, which is like testosterone suspension, it decays quickly.....like in a day.

He said that was the reason why I can run around all day at 1300 with no AI and no sides. He said if I was on injections, I would experience tons of sides.

I asked all about injections, sub-q, etc because even though I'm Androgel, I'm always looking for a better option...or for a cure for hypo.

I think topicals are ideal in theory for the reasons mentioned. They simply don't work for a lot of people though if you read up on personal experiences posted here. I'm not curious enough to switch off a successful protocol though. That's for sure.

user_joe said:

I think topicals are ideal in theory for the reasons mentioned. They simply don't work for a lot of people though if you read up on personal experiences posted here. I'm not curious enough to switch off a successful protocol though. That's for sure.

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From what I'm reading, he's right...in theory. If it works, it works. Also, if the price is right too. If my company didn't cover it, it wouldn't make sense to pay so much for it when injections cost a $10 copay for a bottle that'll last 3 months.

He is correct in theory, but the problem is most just don't absorb worth a damn and if you do absorb well your body will adapt and stop absorption down the road. I'm on injections and I have zero side effects and don't even take an AI, however I had horrible side effects on transdermals. Transdermals cramp my lifestyle since I can't swim or go to the gym for up to 4 hours and have to be mindful of coming into contact with children, not very practical. Transdermals are ineffective and it makes the pharms tons money, it's about the money first, your health a distant second. Why else would a doctor prescribe the most ineffective, most expensive treatment first when your wellbeing and health is hanging in the balance? Money, money, money.

Transdermals = $500-600 1 months worth.

Injections 10ml vial = $100 for 3 months.