Adjusting Protocol to Mon-Wed-Fri

Thanks for the update. What is your total weekly dose? And to confirm, you are happy with your EOD injection schedule?

Saul said:

Thanks for the update. What is your total weekly dose? And to confirm, you are happy with your EOD injection schedule?

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I went with 38mg EOD, so 133mg a week. My e3.5d weekly dose was 140mg and had me at 1000+ trough.

I am happy with it, its not too troublesome at all. In fact I am injecting daily between the Test C and HCG. I only wish I had done this sooner, the transition was interesting at first but cleared up fairly quick. I havent went in for blood draw yet, going to hold out a couple more weeks.

busgalloway said:

This is something I don't quite get yet. I see the advantage of being able to change how often you inject with what you have but I also want my doctor to be on the same page so he will be able to analyze my blood work better.
That being said, I also am unsure how to convince a doctor that you would be better off changing your protocol if you felt you were in a bad one. Do you just have to be persistent in explaining how you feel and asking why your blood work is the way it is?

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I discuss my changes I wish to make with my doctor first and I stick to my protocol for 6 months (long time ) before adjusting my protocol. For whatever reason they always accept the adjustments I wish to make.

Its been a while since I've posted on my quest of EOD injections. So far I have been through a slight E2 crash, this came from 0.22mg AI taken on Mon-Wed-Fri. I got severe dry skin in my face, anxiety was back in full force, a bone chilling type of ache throughout my body, as well as loss of sensitivity and ability to orgasm. Thankfully I was able to recover from this by stopping my AI for 2 weeks. Once I started retaining water I knew E2 was rebounded and getting a little high. I then began taking my AI twice per week, Sun-Wed. This worked fairly well for a while, blood tests have E2 at 19.7 on the sensitive test. I cant say this was 100% accurate as I was only about 4 weeks into the recovering from my Low E and rebounded E. I am now thinking I need just a little less AI, or a extra day in between doses. Lately when I take my AI I will start getting anxiety towards the end of the day and the following 2 days. The day following Ill wake up with dry flakes of skin on my face, I feel that achy bone chill feeling as well. here I am on Saturday morning and I have recovered from that (AI is taken on Sunday morning and Wednesday night), and feel pretty good. This has happened the past 2 weeks now, where after taking the AI i get this way for 2 days. I havent done my follow up consult to my labs, I missed the call from defy and just keep spacing off calling them back. I had originally planned to do the 15 minute mini consult but thinking I need to see Melissa or maybe even Dr Saya. Only problem is I am awaiting a sleep study for suspected apnea and Dr Saya says all things outside of basic TRT are moot until this study is done. Mybe I can still do the mini, then book a second full consult once sleep study is completed. Will they adjust protocol at all during a mini consult?

All in all I feel very close to being dialed in at 100% If i could just be where I am the day prior to my AI, or maybe just a bit better, I would be there.

TT 1131 range 264-916 ng/dl
FT 27.2 range 6.8-21.5 pg/ml
E2 sensitive 19.7 this was 4 weeks following a crash/rebound
DHT 118 no range given, just says High
SHBG 28 this has risen from 22, the rise is from EOD vs e3.5d ?

Your levels are on the low side, I think it's safer to have a little higher estradiol levels. Maybe you should be taking .125mg of AI twice a week.

cleverusername said:

Its been a while since I've posted on my quest of EOD injections. So far I have been through a slight E2 crash, this came from 0.22mg AI taken on Mon-Wed-Fri. I got severe dry skin in my face, anxiety was back in full force, a bone chilling type of ache throughout my body, as well as loss of sensitivity and ability to orgasm. Thankfully I was able to recover from this by stopping my AI for 2 weeks. Once I started retaining water I knew E2 was rebounded and getting a little high. I then began taking my AI twice per week, Sun-Wed. This worked fairly well for a while, blood tests have E2 at 19.7 on the sensitive test. I cant say this was 100% accurate as I was only about 4 weeks into the recovering from my Low E and rebounded E. I am now thinking I need just a little less AI, or a extra day in between doses. Lately when I take my AI I will start getting anxiety towards the end of the day and the following 2 days. The day following Ill wake up with dry flakes of skin on my face, I feel that achy bone chill feeling as well. here I am on Saturday morning and I have recovered from that (AI is taken on Sunday morning and Wednesday night), and feel pretty good. This has happened the past 2 weeks now, where after taking the AI i get this way for 2 days. I havent done my follow up consult to my labs, I missed the call from defy and just keep spacing off calling them back. I had originally planned to do the 15 minute mini consult but thinking I need to see Melissa or maybe even Dr Saya. Only problem is I am awaiting a sleep study for suspected apnea and Dr Saya says all things outside of basic TRT are moot until this study is done. Mybe I can still do the mini, then book a second full consult once sleep study is completed. Will they adjust protocol at all during a mini consult?

All in all I feel very close to being dialed in at 100% If i could just be where I am the day prior to my AI, or maybe just a bit better, I would be there.

TT 1131 range 264-916 ng/dl
FT 27.2 range 6.8-21.5 pg/ml
E2 sensitive 19.7 this was 4 weeks following a crash/rebound
DHT 118 no range given, just says High
SHBG 28 this has risen from 22, the rise is from EOD vs e3.5d ?

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Hi cleverusername, I've enjoyed reading your progress thread. Congrats on feeling better. So at one time you were going to try and get your trough into the 800-900 range. Did you try that

My knee jerk reaction to you perceiving high E symptoms is that instead of reaching a level that is consistently too high you are reacting to the rate of change. You feel symptoms every time you go up the roller coaster but never stay at the plateau to stabilize.

If the actual number is 19.8, seems an AI is not indicated.

If you have cycles of symptoms every time you take anastrazole that even out to feeling normal before the next dose it seems that whatever the more stable state is prior to next dose is where you want to be more consistently. Seems you had the same when you were doing T E3.5D, but due to the T fluctuations. Is the anastrazole schedule providing you with a mini rollercoaster?

What is the 1/2 life of anastrazole anyway?

Blackhawk said:

snip...

What is the 1/2 life of anastrazole anyway?

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Arimidex (Half life 2 days) - Steady state in 10 days

So possibly smaller AI doses more frequently? Or do I misunderstand half life and fluctuations between doses? If you are on an EOD schedule, can you adjust AI dose down for EOD as well?


Or another thought, if you're reducing T cyp and expect total and free T to lower, E2 will follow, maybe you'll find that sweet spot where all are in range and you don't need the Anasrazole?


Edit: addition; BTW, as you noted schedules like M,W,F are not even. I realize for many that the day of the week and how this relates to working life, weekly lifestyle etc can be a great help to remain compliant with self administration, but to me in terms of fluctuations, E3D or EOD is obviously more consistent. With my SHBG level, this is why I chose E3D. For me it is easy to track. I perceive it as:
-Day 1 of the cycle HCG,(the day before T),
-Day 2 T cyp,
-Day 3 rest/no injections.
-Repeat E3D. I don't get lost or forget where I am in this cycle. at all

If I was taking an AI, I would hope I could include it somewhere in the 3 day rotation.

Vince said:

Your levels are on the low side, I think it's safer to have a little higher estradiol levels. Maybe you should be taking .125mg of AI twice a week.

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I am wondering the same thing, I was given free rein on my AI as I was very leary of it from the start of TRT with Defy. But now I am leary of changing things when I am so close to being 100%.

FeelingLost said:

Hi cleverusername, I've enjoyed reading your progress thread. Congrats on feeling better. So at one time you were going to try and get your trough into the 800-900 range. Did you try that

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No sir I have not. I am also pondering that if I were to get my trough down, would I even need AI any more. Ive lost close to 15 pounds since starting my journey. Perhaps I dont aromatase as much now?

Blackhawk said:

So possibly smaller AI doses more frequently? Or do I misunderstand half life and fluctuations between doses? If you are on an EOD schedule, can you adjust AI dose down for EOD as well?


Or another thought, if you're reducing T cyp and expect total and free T to lower, E2 will follow, maybe you'll find that sweet spot where all are in range and you don't need the Anasrazole?


Edit: addition; BTW, as you noted schedules like M,W,F are not even. I realize for many that the day of the week and how this relates to working life, weekly lifestyle etc can be a great help to remain compliant with self administration, but to me in terms of fluctuations, E3D or EOD is obviously more consistent. With my SHBG level, this is why I chose E3D. For me it is easy to track. I perceive it as:
-Day 1 of the cycle HCG,(the day before T),
-Day 2 T cyp,
-Day 3 rest/no injections.
-Repeat E3D. I don't get lost or forget where I am in this cycle. at all

If I was taking an AI, I would hope I could include it somewhere in the 3 day rotation.

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I'm 100% sure it isnt high E2, I stayed at 38-45 E2 for a long time before I finally dropped it down. I was so confused, my high E2 symptoms I swore were Low E symptoms and stopped my AI completely. Defy had me do bloods at 2 weeks out from my last AI dose, E2 come back at 50. The nurse calls me up, says get back on your AI, in fact add a third AI too that! 3 months later my E was at 35, TT was lower @ 840 but FT was still above range. My dose was increased, and my E followed. In August is when I was put onto the Mon-Wed-Fri, but I only did this for a little less than 2 weeks. Reason is I got bad anxiety, instead of riding out the change in hormones I got scared and went back to old protocol. After reading more about everyone doing good at either EOD or Daily I switched and stuck it out. I am happy I did, within 2 weeks I had adjusted and began to feel better than ever, I kept AI @ three times a week and within 5 weeks I was Low E. This is nothing like the feeling of High E, I can manage High E but Low E is nasty! My whole body has this feeling of a cold ache, kind of bone chilling. It is hard to describe, but its nothing like High E. Anyway, I think I need a T dose reduction or a smaller AI at more frequent intervals. Almost think if I were to get my TT and FT down, I could eliminate the AI completely.

In short I need to get off my butt and get scheduled for my consult. Reading the responses and things I have wrote has helped me make my decision. I am going with full consult with either Dr Saya or Melissa. Ive never met with Dr Saya, besides a few chats on Excel but have met with Melissa a few times, she is very helpful. Between Melissa and Excelmale, I wouldnt know what to do without them! I appreciate everyone on Excel, this forum has given me light at the end of the tunnel.

Havent taken my AI for 1 week, I was due Sunday but skipped it, and I am now due again. The past 2 days Ive gotten a spike in libido, with yesterday being crazy! I know that if I go back onto the AI Ill soon end up low E again. Gonna try splitting my AI capsule in half, taking it every 3.5 days as I was with the full capsule.

I need to read back through this thread and make notes for my consult. This way I have everything in front of me ready to go.

cleverusername said:

Havent taken my AI for 1 week, I was due Sunday but skipped it, and I am now due again. The past 2 days Ive gotten a spike in libido, with yesterday being crazy! I know that if I go back onto the AI Ill soon end up low E again. Gonna try splitting my AI capsule in half, taking it every 3.5 days as I was with the full capsule.

I need to read back through this thread and make notes for my consult. This way I have everything in front of me ready to go.

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Too it's real hard to be successful in TRT when the seat of the pants approach, gave up on EOD, re-started EOD, stopped AI, now split AI in half...no wonder you're lost.

Vince Carter said:

Too it's real hard to be successful in TRT when the seat of the pants approach, gave up on EOD, re-started EOD, stopped AI, now split AI in half...no wonder you're lost.

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actually not lost at all. but you are entitled to your opinion so no offense taken. I have a better understanding of everything since beginning 1 year ago. furthermore I've felt my best yet since committing to EOD and am getting AI fine tuned. I also didn't mention but was given the "go ahead" in switching AI to half doses by Dr.

cleverusername said:

actually not lost at all. but you are entitled to your opinion so no offense taken. I have a better understanding of everything since beginning 1 year ago. furthermore I've felt my best yet since committing to EOD and am getting AI fine tuned. I also didn't mention but was given the "go ahead" in switching AI to half doses by Dr.

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You ever get the feeling



I'm on the M/W/F and love it. My doc also allows me to adjust my AI based on how I feel. I think you are getting your protocol tuned in. Keep up the good work.

FeelingLost said:

You ever get the feeling

I'm on the M/W/F and love it. My doc also allows me to adjust my AI based on how I feel. I think you are getting your protocol tuned in. Keep up the good work.

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LOL, yes. I understand why though, as I've (we've all) read many things here that make you wonder WTF? Heck I've even written some of them things back when I began TRT. I recall saying my E2 is fine at 50, and I dont need AI at all. I am just one of those who need a high E2. I couldn't have been further from the truth, since getting into the low 20's things have vastly improved for me. But 19.7 is just a tad too low. Thanks for the good words, cheers.

cleverusername said:

actually not lost at all. but you are entitled to your opinion so no offense taken. I have a better understanding of everything since beginning 1 year ago. furthermore I've felt my best yet since committing to EOD and am getting AI fine tuned. I also didn't mention but was given the "go ahead" in switching AI to half doses by Dr.

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The funny part is that's it's reading your own posts that contradicts but then you're defensive so maybe it's the Estrogen after all.

Vince Carter said:

The funny part is that's it's reading your own posts that contradicts but then you're defensive so maybe it's the Estrogen after all.

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thread spans over 4 months and obviously E is the issue here as changing from e3.5d to EOD tanked E2 after not adjusting AI. and the first time I tried mon-wed-fri was 2 months prior to this thread, the way you respond is as if I make these changes from day to day. and no, not defensive at all just adding facts. cheers

FeelingLost said:

I'm on the M/W/F and love it. My doc also allows me to adjust my AI based on how I feel. I think you are getting your protocol tuned in. Keep up the good work.

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Had my consult this morning, was told numbers are great and I got AI ordered at 0.125, as to where my splitting them was 0.111 Pretty happy with things and doing good! Was also given a option to lower T dose by 2 or 3 mg and try to go with no AI. Being I'm dialed in, I hate to have to start over, took a minute to get to this point so I'll remain as is for now.

cleverusername said:

Had my consult this morning, was told numbers are great and I got AI ordered at 0.125, as to where my splitting them was 0.111 Pretty happy with things and doing good! Was also given a option to lower T dose by 2 or 3 mg and try to go with no AI. Being I'm dialed in, I hate to have to start over, took a minute to get to this point so I'll remain as is for now.

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Man don't you love it when a plan (protocol) comes together. Congrats let the healing begin.
I get new blood report this Wednesday after 8 weeks on my new protocol and I can't wait to see where my numbers are. I also did a thyroid panel this round as well.

just a post for reference.

1 week ago at my consult I was given the option to either A. continue same T dose and lower my AI to 0.125 OR B. low T does and ditch AI all together. Having lost 25 pounds since switch to EOD injections, I chose to lower T dose down too 34mg EOD and keep hCG at 350ui EOD. Both my TT and FT are over range, so this should put me around 950 TT and FT around 24. Currently (latest labs) have TT at 1131 and FT at 27.2. I know T is not linear, so adjustments may be made after 3 more weeks when I do labs again.


was also given the option for Sermorelin, I declined at this time. will test igf1 again though.