Starting HCG monotherapy

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Rjh8492

New Member
I am 25 years of age and looking to maintain fertility while raising testosterone. I have battled low t since 2012. I had success on paper with clomid raising t from 338ng/do to 778ng/do. Free t was 29 on a 10-30 range if I remember correctly. Total estrogen was 131 so pretty high. Clomid helped with some symptoms but has crushed my libido. My dose was low 12.5mg Ed and anastrozole 0.5mg twice weekly. I discontinued clomid for 4 months. I saw a new urologist and he has prescribed me HCG 1000units 3x week and keep anastrozole the same. He has no concerns about densensitizing leydig cells. Says it has not happened and he has had men on it for years. My issue is insurance does not cover the HCG. The vial that I am getting is 10000 units. So a vial will last me about 3 weeks. It costs $120 per vial through compounding pharmacy. So I will be dishing out around $2000 a year. My wife and are going to begin attempting to conceive our first child in the upcoming months. My ideal choice would be to go on weekly testosterone injections with low dose HCG after we conceive and then for further children down the line come off testosterone when the time comes and up the HCG +/- clomid. I'll be posting in this forum my response to hcg. I would appreciate any input.
 
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Vince

Super Moderator
If you already did a restart with Clomid, why are you starting HCG monotherapy? You could find a knowledgeable doc to guide you as Clomid therapy, restarts are complex.
 

Rjh8492

New Member
Because I crash around 1-2 months after clomid stops. Back down to as low 270s ng/L. I need something to keep my levels up so I don't feel like shit. Clomid raised my levels but didn't improve symptoms. Started getting blurred vision and insomnia as well.
 

Rjh8492

New Member
Did my first subq injection on Thursday 9/7/17. 1000units. Too soon to tell anything. Had my first strong erection when the wife and I messed around yesterday. Probably just coincidence though. Plan on doing my injections Sunday Tuesday Thursday. Then anastrozole 0.5mg Monday Friday. Thankful clomid is finally getting out of my system. Was having the worse insomnia and depression while on. Dealing with a herniated L4-5 disc at the moment. So the low t and the injury is really getting into my head. Bench is still 255 8-10reps. To put things into perspective I was doing 525lb deadlifts off of 4 inch boxes 2 months ago and right now 135 x10 off the floor is painful. Not really sure how i injured it. Because I never felt an injury. Literally just woke up one day with a little tightness that has progressively worsened. I have a Physical therapy friend and have been receiving traction that helps alot. I have backed off of the squatting and deadlifting but I am an er nurse and my job requires me to stand for 12 hours and lift people. Which is very demanding on the spine even with proper technique.
 

Rjh8492

New Member
Han0ng unfortunately the increase in testi size seems to decreased. Did an injection Sunday night and notice that that my testis are fullest in the morning.
 

Rjh8492

New Member
Dikow, clomid is still an option for me. I was using clomid at 12.5 Ed. But the side effects became intolerable. A lower dose is still option in the future. For now I would like to continue with HCG as I like the bioidentical component as an alternative for trt.
 

dikow

Member
Dikow, clomid is still an option for me. I was using clomid at 12.5 Ed. But the side effects became intolerable. A lower dose is still option in the future. For now I would like to continue with HCG as I like the bioidentical component as an alternative for trt.

I am in favor of bioidentical stuff too. But I think HCG can desensitize you to some hormones, in a similar fashion as T.
 

Rjh8492

New Member
Ultimately, I don't believe in desensitized leydig cells. The only studies that I have seen that supported this was conducted on rats not humans.
 

dikow

Member
Ultimately, I don't believe in desensitized leydig cells. The only studies that I have seen that supported this was conducted on rats not humans.

Actually, my concern is more about desensitizing to GnRH. Can't this happen?

Can you also elaborate why you don't believe in desensitized leydig cells?
 

Vince

Super Moderator
Actually, my concern is more about desensitizing to GnRH. Can't this happen?

Can you also elaborate why you don't believe in desensitized leydig cells?
LONG TERM HCG- Does it stop working due to testicle Leydig cell desensitization?

This study of two people did not show issues after 23 months of high doses: http://www.eje-online.org/content/53/2/315.short

This study showed no long term reduction in efficacy:
http://www.eje.org/content/77/4/753.short

This old study in rats probably fueled the misconception, but at these doses in rat cells HCG receptor occupancy returned to normal after 120 hours. How can we extrapolate to humans? http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0303720777900727



https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?695-Cycling-HCG
 

Vince

Super Moderator
Thanks mate.

Vince, how do you put this disclaimer in your signature? I wanted to do the same, but can't find the option in the settings area of my profile to edit signature.
[h=4]Basic Information[/b] [h=5]I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.[/b]

[h=4]I don't know if this option is available to everyone, you can PM Nelson.[/b]






[h=5][/b]
 

Rjh8492

New Member
Did my 4th shot yesterday. Today feeling pretty down, fatigues, lack of energy or motivation. Probably being unrealistic but I was hoping I would be feeling improvement in symptoms. Still no change in energy, libido isn't there but erectile dysfunction seems to have resolved, my mood just continues to be up and down. Really just want to do the Dr lipshultz protocol of trt 100-140mg and 500 units HCG eod. More and more I read HCG or clomid simply does not provide the same subjective benefits of trt regardless of levels. I have friends who are on trt and they noticed dramatic improvements within 1-2 weeks of starting.
 

Rjh8492

New Member
5th shot done on Sunday. Balls were bigger this morning. Had a strong morning erection. Still not feeling much different in regards to mood, energy, and libido.
 

Rjh8492

New Member
Also I forgot to mention. Dr. Melograno does not want me taking anastrozole until labs are drawn. So i stopped taking it on week 1. I dont have any sorry nipples or anything indicating e2 is high. I do supplement with DIM 150mg daily and tumeric. Which are supposed to help with estrogen. Also my lab work will include a thyroid panel as he mentioned my numbers from a previous test are borderline. Also doing my sleep study tonight and MRI for my lower back tomorrow. If they recommend surgery for my lower back I am going to probably pay out of pocket for stem cell treatment.
 
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