TRT lab followup - Stop HCG days prior to testing?

Hey fellas,

I will be going for my first blood work follow up next week after being on TRT for 7 weeks.
Protocol:
100mg/wk Test Cyp (Shoot on Thursdays)
500mg/wk HCG (250mg Tues and 250mg Wednesday)

Since HCG can raise/impact Test levels, to get an accurate trough reading Thursday morning, should I skip the HCG on Tuesday and Wednesday?

How would skipping HCG impact the E2 assay? Not on an AI now but it seems I am retaining some water and feeling tired a few days prior to my next shot. Will probably be joining the SubQ 2x/wk club soon after discussion with my wonderful Doc.

Regards,
Anthony

Why are you taking HCG on two consecutive days rather than splitting the HCG at roughly 3.5 days, like Sunday morning/Wednesday night?

Blackhawk said:

Why are you taking HCG on two consecutive days rather than splitting the HCG at roughly 3.5 days, like Sunday morning/Wednesday night?

Click to expand...

And what exactly would be the point of doing it that way instead of the way I am doing it now (Dr. Crisler's method)?

I don't know, Chrisler is not my doc, so not familiar with your protocol, but potentially more consistent levels throughout the week.. Just asking, would like to know.

I've been prescribed 350mg every 3 days.

Thanks.

He isn't my Doc either but rather one of the pioneers in this field.
The way you suggested it made me think it was a better way than what I am doing now, and I am always eager to learn more. Meant no disrespect with my follow up question, brother. Just looking to gather as much info as possible here.

Take a look at this. Pretty interesting article:

http://www.defymedical.com/resources/health-articles/242-an-update-to-the-crisler-hcg-protocol

ZoomyR6 said:

Hey fellas,

I will be going for my first blood work follow up next week after being on TRT for 7 weeks.
Protocol:
100mg/wk Test Cyp (Shoot on Thursdays)
500mg/wk HCG (250mg Tues and 250mg Wednesday)

Since HCG can raise/impact Test levels, to get an accurate trough reading Thursday morning, should I skip the HCG on Tuesday and Wednesday?

How would skipping HCG impact the E2 assay? Not on an AI now but it seems I am retaining some water and feeling tired a few days prior to my next shot. Will probably be joining the SubQ 2x/wk club soon after discussion with my wonderful Doc.

Regards,
Anthony

Click to expand...

No, no, no...DON'T SKIP ANYTHING. You're not only evaluating a single lab value, you mentioned testosterone, you're testing your entire protocol for effectiveness. Removing an element might well cause *something* to be altered...but how will you know? Test at your testosterone trough, just prior to an injection, so that you and your doctor will be able to assess your complete status.

ZoomyR6 said:

He isn't my Doc either but rather one of the pioneers in this field.
The way you suggested it made me think it was a better way than what I am doing now, and I am always eager to learn more. Meant no disrespect with my follow up question, brother. Just looking to gather as much info as possible here.

Take a look at this. Pretty interesting article:

http://www.defymedical.com/resources/health-articles/242-an-update-to-the-crisler-hcg-protocol

Click to expand...

Thanks.

I think I partly understand what he's getting at.

I'm on transdermal, so according to his article his protocol for me would be what I am on, every third day. Very different strategy for a once a week T cyp cycle. Learn something new every day!

I most recently read this:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-presents-two-case-studies&highlight=hcg+saya

Where it looks like after 72 hrs you're dropping pretty low on HCG if you want to keep levels up after a 500mg dose, so I suspect 250mg 2 days in a row would leave you low as well after several days. But if the priorities are flattening out T and E2 levels through the week with a 1/wk dose of T, I could see the the different strategy being appropriate. Just thinking out loud, I don't quite fully get it.


It looks to me though like based on Chrislers protocol that the hcg schedule contributes to evening out the T level through the week, so cutting it out before testing would potentially skew results

CoastWatcher said:

No, no, no...DON'T SKIP ANYTHING. You're not only evaluating a single lab value, you mentioned testosterone, you're testing your entire protocol for effectiveness. Removing an element might well cause *something* to be altered...but how will you know? Test at your testosterone trough, just prior to an injection, so that you and your doctor will be able to assess your complete status.

Click to expand...

Now this makes sense, thank you!

Blackhawk said:

Thanks.

I think I partly understand what he's getting at.

I'm on transdermal, so according to his article his protocol for me would be what I am on, every third day. Very different strategy for a once a week T cyp cycle. Learn something new every day!

I most recently read this:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-presents-two-case-studies&highlight=hcg+saya

Where it looks like after 72 hrs you're dropping pretty low on HCG if you want to keep levels up after a 500mg dose, so I suspect 250mg 2 days in a row would leave you low as well after several days. But if the priorities are flattening out T and E2 levels through the week with a 1/wk dose of T, I could see the the different strategy being appropriate. Just thinking out loud, I don't quite fully get it.


It looks to me though like based on Chrislers protocol that the hcg schedule contributes to evening out the T level through the week, so cutting it out before testing would potentially skew results

Click to expand...

Yes all this is indeed very interesting but hard to fully comprehend. I feel, however, that being on this forum has help my understanding in this treatment immensely. Believe it or not, more so than a lot of other doctors out there.

I see what you mean about the evening out the T throughout the week and will continue the HCG as directed. Thanks.

ZoomyR6 said:

Hey fellas,

I will be going for my first blood work follow up next week after being on TRT for 7 weeks.
Protocol:
100mg/wk Test Cyp (Shoot on Thursdays)
500mg/wk HCG (250mg Tues and 250mg Wednesday)

Since HCG can raise/impact Test levels, to get an accurate trough reading Thursday morning, should I skip the HCG on Tuesday and Wednesday?

How would skipping HCG impact the E2 assay? Not on an AI now but it seems I am retaining some water and feeling tired a few days prior to my next shot. Will probably be joining the SubQ 2x/wk club soon after discussion with my wonderful Doc.

Regards,
Anthony

Click to expand...

you be fine taking your HCG on that schedule, I did it this way back in the day, if you ever switch to twice a week injects then I would change it, keep taking it and don't stop before testing, it is part of your protocol

I always injected T and HCG on the same day, it does make easier to do labs. Because of your protocol, I would follow Coastwatcher advice.

Will do guys, thanks.

How is testing done to get a trough reading when injecting 2x/wk? What day would be optimal?

ZoomyR6 said:

Will do guys, thanks.

How is testing done to get a trough reading when injecting 2x/wk? What day would be optimal?

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A trough reading will always be just before your next scheduled injection (as close as possible). This means that if you inject 2x a week Monday morning and Thursday night, you would want to get your blood drawn Monday morning no more than an hour before you're scheduled to inject. Likewise, if labs stayed open late, you could have your blood drawn Thursday night just before your injection. The same principle applies regardless of injection frequency. If you injected daily at 8AM, you would do bloodwork between 7-8 before you inject again.

I always do my labs in the morning before I inject, that way it's easy for me to fast for 12 hours.

Once per week with HCG the two days prior is a pretty old protocol, I wouldn't imagine that Dr C is no where close to that in the last few years, thats how old that thinking is. But it was meant to bridge your over with HCG the two days when you would in theory be at your lowest point in the week with T. Its old, doesn't mean that it doesn't work but it is antiquated and thinking is much further ahead now.

Vince Carter said:

Once per week with HCG the two days prior is a pretty old protocol, I wouldn't imagine that Dr C is no where close to that in the last few years, thats how old that thinking is. But it was meant to bridge your over with HCG the two days when you would in theory be at your lowest point in the week with T. Its old, doesn't mean that it doesn't work but it is antiquated and thinking is much further ahead now.

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So where is the newest info on the latest protocol? This was the only thing I've seen. Which would be better? Certainly not on any day you are injecting as it will spike T too high, no?

That is so old tho that it's moved away from because most guys are Primary Hypo, problem in the testes, so there's little to no impact on Endo T production with HCG + Test so it's rather a moot point because we know better now. Last I knew Dr C had moved to daily HCG use around 100iu and T injections at a minimum of twice per week.