Estradiol Issues

ratbag said:

I wonder if you can supplement estradiol? Also looking at your IGF-1, I'd bet you dollars to donuts Defy would suggest you try peptides, like mod GRF(1-29) with GHRP-2. Or even Semorelin alone... Dr. Crisler also prescribes to this treatment.

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Yeah, I'm curious about supplementing estrogen as well, or at least use something that may have mild estrogenic effects. The prohormone 4AD strongly converts to estrogen.

I've decided to start with DHEA at 10mg when I get it, due to all the issues and side effects I've had with it in the past at 25mg and 50mg.

I have a years worth of mk-677 here that I'd love to try, but I want to be free of all cardiovascular side effects first before introducing that as I'm sure it'll increase my blood pressure again.

up dose to 80 mg twice a week and wait it out ?

GreenMachineX said:

Figured it out.

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that is not the sensitive assay, the regular E2 test always showed me LOWER than the sensitive assay. Your DHEA is pitifully low, I would look into possible adrenal issues and get a 24 hour saliva cortisol test.

at15 said:

up dose to 80 mg twice a week and wait it out ?

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Well, like I've said a few times, I've been getting high testosterone side effects from anything over 60mg per shot.
Aldo, those labs are from a month ago. I had more recent ones pulled 3 days ago with the sensitive essay.

Vitamin_C said:

that is not the sensitive assay, the regular E2 test always showed me LOWER than the sensitive assay. Your DHEA is pitifully low, I would look into possible adrenal issues and get a 24 hour saliva cortisol test.

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Lower??? From everything I've seen, the regular essay will over report e2, not under report.
Yeah, the doctor wants me to do the 24 hour saliva test but it'll cost $150 or something she said. Unless I can find it somewhere else like discountedlabs?

It may be lab dependent, but Sonora Quest labs in Arizona's regular estrogen assay always reported me lower than the sensitive. Maybe Labcorps non-sensitive assay over reports, but I only get the sensitive now. I buy my 24 hour saliva tests from ZRT labs on Amazon, they are around $150 ish.

Vitamin_C said:

It may be lab dependent, but Sonora Quest labs in Arizona's regular estrogen assay always reported me lower than the sensitive. Maybe Labcorps non-sensitive assay over reports, but I only get the sensitive now. I buy my 24 hour saliva tests from ZRT labs on Amazon, they are around $150 ish.

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Yeah, that's crazy. I need to get my insurance to cover it somehow.

Finally got my sensitive e2 where it should be at 27 (8-35) and total testosterone at 848 (264-916) from 140mg/week, no AI. The problem is I’m still having heart flutters! Is it possible that even though the numbers are right it takes time for the body to adapt or sensitize to the new levels? Could the symptoms eventually go away after my body gets used to these levels? Or should I start looking at other causes?

So again, finally figured this out after 2 trips to the ER. The short version is my doctor though the chest flutters were from neurotransmitters in the gut and prescribed extra b vitamins for proper methylation and that went into overdrive. I had no idea what was happening.

Nausea, heartburn, chest pain, palpitations, lightheaded, left arm pain, freezing to the point of uncontrollably and visibly shaking, overstimulation, BP up to 170/110...it was hell. After it happening twice, I realized it coincided with things I take and dropped everything except my actual prescriptions.

Low and behold, it went away and my chest flutters are going away! Low e2 symptoms are improving and I’m feeling good for once. I still don’t understand that one normal sensitive e2 of 27 while still having all the low e2 symptoms. I’m thinking it’s the apigenin in my multi and in lemon balm that I used frequently for anxiety blocking the estrogen receptors, but that’s a guess. We’ll see as time goes on and I hopefully continue to improve. BP as of this morning is now 120’s over 70. Hasn’t been that low in months.

So you attribute those reactions to the b vitamins?

Excessive doses of b vitamins. Half my family Has the mthfr mutation so I’m sure I do too and thus the reaction.

interesting....

Another piece of the puzzle, or perhaps I was wrong about the pathway, but I took 200mg of magnesium glycinate and sparked another mild episode. Apparently it’s also activation of the NMDA receptors. I didn’t realize but a couple weeks ago when this was all starting, a dose of agmatine just “turned it off” completely but at the time, was so screwed up and panicky about it all I didn’t realize why.

The TMG in the Methyl Guard I was taking also contains glycine and the combo of TMG and Mag Glycinate plus the Methyl folate and Methyl b12 just put it all in overdrive.

I’m done messing with supplements for a while except magnesium asporotate and pink salt for the keto diet. Mag Asp hasn’t negative effected me yet and should help the process by NMDA antagonism.

What I haven’t been able to figure out is why a 1/4 tsp sea salt seemed to turn off a couple mild “attacks”.

Update:
E2 Sensitive comeback at 11.6 pg/mL.

No wonder I still feel like garbage and ready to hit the panic button at any moment. It’s been 6 days since the test and I feel marginally better since stopping all the supplements, I’m starting to think I just may not have enough aromatase activity no matter what I do.

Hemoglobin crept back up to 18.0 while on the 140mg per week of test cypionate. Hematocrit was 50 and RBC 5.9. I thought that was weird because I thought hematocrit was calculated by multiplying the hemoglobin by 3. Am I wrong? 2 of my doctors said not to worry about donating yet, and the 3rd said go now.

The X3 is a sloppy rule, not something that you can bank on.

Oh ok, good then for now.

That e2 sensitive is just a couple days away from the regular e2. Substantial difference.
couple notes:
thats 1 day later than it should've, so 1 deep in the trough.
on 140mg test, and 15mg DHEA. No known AI. I had cut my thyroid dose in half just for a couple days prior (not that day and not day before), so that probably why tsh went up. I did that because I didn't know what was making me crazy at the time, but apparently it wasn't thyroid.

I'd be trying to AT LEAST double that sensitive e2 number.

With your SHBG @ 20 I would be interested in what your Free Estrogen is running at, a little theory of mine I'm working on, if you have the means to add that to a set of labs in the future.

I have a couple different estrogen labs coming in but not sure what they are. They were pulled Monday.

Definitely agree with wanting to double my e2 number. I do believe it is rising now that I'm not taking any supplements (except magnesium which you'll see as below I'm now done with too).

Update to the “can't breathe, freezing cold, pins and needles, muscle cramp” nightmare.
Now pretty sure I was wrong about overmethylation bring the problem, and pretty sure it was actually too much magnesium, which would account for why it happened Sunday and again yesterday while only supplementing magnesium asporotate.

Too much magnesium can cause breathing problems and hypothermia, granted I wasn't that close to it but it explains the trouble breathing and feeling freezing cold. Then, too much magnesium can mess up the balance with calcium, which has symptoms of pins and needles and lower body muscle cramps. I hope this is right. Also makes a little more sense as to why 1/4 tsp sea salt stops it by balancing electrolytes. Breathing fine today, just feeling a bit cold, pins and needles and the muscle cramps. Hopefully goes away in a day or 2 now that I've stopped the magnesium (last dose Tuesday night). Did some googling and saw this happened to people using Epsom salt baths.