What is actually the best T level? When is it too high?

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JCUSN

Member
My doctor switched me from 100mg Test Cyp (2 50mg shots weekly) to 120mg Test Cyp (2 60mg shots weekly) and my T and estradiol levels doubled. Currently, my total T sits at 1200 and estradiol at 40, and that is 3 days after my last injection. I inject Tuesdsy morning and Friday evening...these labs are drawn Friday mornings and have been consistent.

Since going up to 120mg, my acne has actually cleared up almost entirely. Not sure this is due to the increase as it could just be my bodily normalizing. However, estradiol has definitely gone up and I notice a negative difference in my erections and my libido.

My question...is 1200 total T 3 days after injection of 50mg (the "trough") a but high? Would reducing my dose to 110mg vice 120mg drop my estradiol levels much and be worth it, or should I drop to 100mg again? I'm trying to avoid using Adex as much as possible.

I also inject 200iu HCG M/W/F. That's all.
 
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CoastWatcher

Moderator
The best testosterone level? That's easy - whatever you feel good on. I don't mean to be snide, I'm just pointing out that there is not one, single number that works for everyone. You seem to be both anxious and a bit uneasy with the results of your current protocol. Why did you and your doctor increase your weekly, total dose? Something must have motivated that?

In regard to your estradiol, it may be possible to lower it by increasing the number of your injections per week. You could go to an EOD schedule. When I went to a daily protocol, 16mg every morning, my estradiol parked itself at a very comfortable low 30s range with total testosterone at 1000 (+-).
 
You're testing regimen could be better, there's still numbers being affected 8hrs because you're not truly getting in to your trough for a blood draw. So what prompted the dose increase and how did you arrive at a 20mg increase doubling your T and E...that makes no sense. at all. Posting some labs would provide a more coherent discussion, saying "my E = 40" just isn't useful when most guys on the forum are getting the wrong tests.
 

JCUSN

Member
My estradiol test is the "sensitive" from LabCorp. Each time I have tested it was Friday at noon, and the results have been 38-40.

When I was on 100mg per week, my total T was only 594-600, and estradiol was 20-20.6. When I upped it to 120mg per week, I got this huge jump I'm reporting now...double!

My doctor upped me to 120mg weekly because of my results on 100mg weekly yielding total T being only 594-600.
 

JCUSN

Member
The best testosterone level? That's easy - whatever you feel good on. I don't mean to be snide, I'm just pointing out that there is not one, single number that works for everyone. You seem to be both anxious and a bit uneasy with the results of your current protocol. Why did you and your doctor increase your weekly, total dose? Something must have motivated that?

In regard to your estradiol, it may be possible to lower it by increasing the number of your injections per week. You could go to an EOD schedule. When I went to a daily protocol, 16mg every morning, my estradiol parked itself at a very comfortable low 30s range with total testosterone at 1000 (+-).

I FEEL ok...just no libido at all and weak erections. And I do love that my acne seemed to clear up when I increased my dose. Libido is more important to me though.

Would EOD really start to cause damage to my muscles? Since I'm so lean (9-10% body fat) could I get away with using insulin needles to inject IM? Does 1200 total T three days after injecting only 60mg test C not seem a bit high?
 

ratbag

Member
What Vince Carter is saying is your trough time is incorrect. So for you this means the correct time for labs and this places you in the bottom of the trough is Tuesday morning before injections. Your labs fri morn are not in the trough. You may want to consider moving your 3 HCG shots to Tues/Thurs/Sat so that tuesday morning before shots is your trough period.
 

JCUSN

Member
What Vince Carter is saying is your trough time is incorrect. So for you this means the correct time for labs and this places you in the bottom of the trough is Tuesday morning before injections. Your labs fri morn are not in the trough. You may want to consider moving your 3 HCG shots to Tues/Thurs/Sat so that tuesday morning before shots is your trough period.

So if what you're saying is correct, and Tuesday morning before my shot is my trough, why wouldn't Friday at noon before my second weekly shot also be my trough? If I inject 60mg 2x per week on Tuesday mornings and Friday evenings, wouldn't Tuesday mornings before injection and Friday afternoons before injection both be my troughs? My labs have always been done Fridays before my evening injection.
 
see you're starting to say it correctly, but that's not what your wrote in post #1 "I inject Tuesdsy morning and Friday evening...these labs are drawn Friday mornings and have been consistent." now you're flipping it around to Friday at noon, then you go on with something about Friday afternoon...If you'd pick just one version of this story you're telling and stick with it you might avoid getting 7 posts of telling you that you're doing it wrong.
 

JCUSN

Member
What Vince Carter is saying is your trough time is incorrect. So for you this means the correct time for labs and this places you in the bottom of the trough is Tuesday morning before injections. Your labs fri morn are not in the trough. You may want to consider moving your 3 HCG shots to Tues/Thurs/Sat so that tuesday morning before shots is your trough period.

see you're starting to say it correctly, but that's not what your wrote in post #1 "I inject Tuesdsy morning and Friday evening...these labs are drawn Friday mornings and have been consistent." now you're flipping it around to Friday at noon, then you go on with something about Friday afternoon...If you'd pick just one version of this story you're telling and stick with it you might avoid getting 7 posts of telling you that you're doing it wrong.

Well I guess "noon/morning" just feel the same to me. Each time I got the Friday labs it was between the hours of 11:30am-1:00pm. And 1.5 hour window.

So does 1200 total T seem high in a "trough" 3 days after a 60mg injection?
 

franksepe

Member
Did you feel good at 100mg of test?! If you did then go back to it. This is the simplest fix. This is for a life time remember that. Do you really want to inject 3 or more times a week for your ENTIRE life?
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
Did you feel good at 100mg of test?! If you did then go back to it. This is the simplest fix. This is for a life time remember that. Do you really want to inject 3 or more times a week for your ENTIRE life?
That is something to consider, but having injected daily for years, I can tell you that's a small price to pay to feel as good as I do. Cost versus benefit.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
I FEEL ok...just no libido at all and weak erections. And I do love that my acne seemed to clear up when I increased my dose. Libido is more important to me though.

Would EOD really start to cause damage to my muscles? Since I'm so lean (9-10% body fat) could I get away with using insulin needles to inject IM? Does 1200 total T three days after injecting only 60mg test C not seem a bit high?

An insulin needle will do fine. Injecting every morning I aim the needle anywhere it will go. Rotate around the body. Muscle "damage" is going to be minimal.
 

JCUSN

Member
Did you feel good at 100mg of test?! If you did then go back to it. This is the simplest fix. This is for a life time remember that. Do you really want to inject 3 or more times a week for your ENTIRE life?

That is something to consider, but having injected daily for years, I can tell you that's a small price to pay to feel as good as I do. Cost versus benefit.

Decreasing my dose back to 100mg will also result in my estradiol going back to down its previous level of around 20 also, correct?

Should I take a small dose of Adex now to drop my estradiol, or wait for it to slowly go back down? Would it be a bad idea to take it to knock the estradiol down lower while it reduces on its own with my decrease Test dose?
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
Decreasing my dose back to 100mg will also result in my estradiol going back to down its previous level of around 20 also, correct?

Should I take a small dose of Adex now to drop my estradiol, or wait for it to slowly go back down? Would it be a bad idea to take it to knock the estradiol down lower while it reduces on its own with my decrease Test dose?

I wouldn't go near anastrozole. If you modify your protocol it's in your best interest to do one thing at a time. You can always add an AI if it's necessary in four to six weeks.
 

Systemlord

Member
If you knock your estrogen down too far you'll be in a living hell for at least a month! Only use an AI when you have lab work showing elevated estrogen.
 

JCUSN

Member
I wouldn't go near anastrozole. If you modify your protocol it's in your best interest to do one thing at a time. You can always add an AI if it's necessary in four to six weeks.

If you knock your estrogen down too far you'll be in a living hell for at least a month! Only use an AI when you have lab work showing elevated estrogen.

Copy that. I won't add arimidex at all, and just reduce my Test dose a bit to decrease my estradiol "naturally."

How long do you think it will take for the estradiol to come down from the reduced Test dose?
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
Copy that. I won't add arimidex at all, and just reduce my Test dose a bit to decrease my estradiol "naturally."

How long do you think it will take for the estradiol to come down from the reduced Test dose?


Each of us is different. I was at 55 on the sensitive test when I went to daily injections. It dropped to 31 In five to six weeks. I've never taken an AI.
 
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