Libido good pre/post TRT- Years later crashes

Vince Carter · Mar 22, 2018

Morning wood isn't really a good indicator of much though it's a positive sign. This is one of the more perplexing pieces of TRT, libido, etc etc that doesn't return, even when the numbers would support it.

Do you have any guy issues? Indigestion, reflux, heartburn, GERD?

Oldpowerlifter · Mar 22, 2018

I was just being hopeful as some Threads made it seem like getting morning wood was “it” .....

No gut issues what so ever.

Vince · Mar 22, 2018

Oldpowerlifter said:
I was just being hopeful as some Threads made it seem like getting morning wood was “it” .....

No gut issues what so ever.

It doesn't appear that you have High estradiol levels, tanking your estradiol levels is more dangerous that have a high levels. One of the major issues in trt is over-prescribing AIs.

Oldpowerlifter · Mar 22, 2018

Well I tanked them for nearly 4 years I think with that monster dose AI all due to an error with using the wrong E2 lab and then subsequent labs making it seem like I was in the perfect range, only to finally learn about the ultra sensitive E2 and discover for years I was super low. And at that same time period major stress in my life, and consistent vicadin use same time period. So it may have been perfect storm to kill my penis.

KevinC · Mar 27, 2018

First, I'm sorry to hear about your libido problems. To quote Bill Clinton, "I feel your pain.", and that is what lead me to TRT. I could still function sexually but getting an erection was no longer easy and typically only possible in the morning when my natural testosterone levels were at their peak. As the day wore on and eventually into the night, a boner was not possible. Just by those symptoms alone I knew I was suffering from low-T.

I to sometimes suffer from a numbing sensation in my genitals. It's almost like my penis and testicles feel like they aren't even there. Typically this corresponds to lower estrogen levels from Arimidex use. I've had some difficulties dialing in my AI use and when I've overdone the Arimidex I get a few symptoms, namely dry and flushed skin, which I call a "dry hot flash" and a complete and total loss of libido along with the aforementioned numbing of my penis. I've been fortunate in that I can skip my AI dose for a day or two and symptoms resolve as my estrogen levels return to normal whereas some HRT patients will remain low for long periods of time.

I'm not the type to recommend any specific type of adjustments or treatments to someone as I'm keenly aware that each patient is different, I have no clinical assessment or profile to base any recommendations on, and your own doctor knows you much better than I do, but I will tell you one thing. In that series of labs you posted in post #10, a trend is obvious and as your T levels are falling your E2 is rising. How that correlates to your clinical picture is not for me to say, but it is there. Did your symptoms progress and intensify over that time frame?

As far as ED meds and overseas pharmacies, I've had good luck with ReliableRX and Ceebis, their generic brand of Cialis. TRT helped greatly with my libido and ability to achieve an erection while Ceebis has improved the quality of my erections and orgasms. I get harder due to the increased blood flow and orgasms are much more intense. I jokingly tell my wife that Ceebis has turned my penis into a monster with a mind of its own as I randomly get erections for no reason at all again just like when I was a teenager. My wife and I had sex twice yesterday and the quality of the sex was greatly improved compared to pre-Ceebis intercourse. I take 10mg a day, divided into 5mg doses in the morning and evening and it's terrific. I've never had a medication have such a profound impact on my health in such a short time.

Good luck and I hope you get this all sorted out and feeling better.

Oldpowerlifter · Jul 9, 2018

KevinC said:
First, I'm sorry to hear about your libido problems. To quote Bill Clinton, "I feel your pain.", and that is what lead me to TRT. I could still function sexually but getting an erection was no longer easy and typically only possible in the morning when my natural testosterone levels were at their peak. As the day wore on and eventually into the night, a boner was not possible. Just by those symptoms alone I knew I was suffering from low-T.

I to sometimes suffer from a numbing sensation in my genitals. It's almost like my penis and testicles feel like they aren't even there. Typically this corresponds to lower estrogen levels from Arimidex use. I've had some difficulties dialing in my AI use and when I've overdone the Arimidex I get a few symptoms, namely dry and flushed skin, which I call a "dry hot flash" and a complete and total loss of libido along with the aforementioned numbing of my penis. I've been fortunate in that I can skip my AI dose for a day or two and symptoms resolve as my estrogen levels return to normal whereas some HRT patients will remain low for long periods of time.

I'm not the type to recommend any specific type of adjustments or treatments to someone as I'm keenly aware that each patient is different, I have no clinical assessment or profile to base any recommendations on, and your own doctor knows you much better than I do, but I will tell you one thing. In that series of labs you posted in post #10, a trend is obvious and as your T levels are falling your E2 is rising. How that correlates to your clinical picture is not for me to say, but it is there. Did your symptoms progress and intensify over that time frame?

As far as ED meds and overseas pharmacies, I've had good luck with ReliableRX and Ceebis, their generic brand of Cialis. TRT helped greatly with my libido and ability to achieve an erection while Ceebis has improved the quality of my erections and orgasms. I get harder due to the increased blood flow and orgasms are much more intense. I jokingly tell my wife that Ceebis has turned my penis into a monster with a mind of its own as I randomly get erections for no reason at all again just like when I was a teenager. My wife and I had sex twice yesterday and the quality of the sex was greatly improved compared to pre-Ceebis intercourse. I take 10mg a day, divided into 5mg doses in the morning and evening and it's terrific. I've never had a medication have such a profound impact on my health in such a short time.

Good luck and I hope you get this all sorted out and feeling better.

I think I will have it sorted out soon, as I decided to bite the bullet and see Dr. Mariano soon. I have been yo yoing my E2 all over the place in the last 5 years it seems. Crushing it way too low from too much Adex......letting it creep back up with no Adex, then getting on a smaller dose of Adex yet probably a big error was adding in DHEA since my DHEA levels seemed lower than optimal, and on Crisler's forums tons of people say supplementing DHEA to backfill is important for libido. Well now even on a smaller AI dose for months, my E2 has GONE UP likely because of the DHEA as my DHEA levels are sky high on my most current lab. So me trying to read forums and play doctor on myself has not helped and its time I just make the financial commitment to sort it out with someone. My libido has probably been #$%@ because my E2 is either too low or too high....and if there is anything else in my bloodwork or supplements, Mariano seems to be someone who will sort it all out as he is big into nutrition and supplements, plus hormones, whatever the connections are with brain chemistry, etc. But dialing in E2 has eluded me.

lowe2sucks · Jul 9, 2018

what were your total and free t on 200mg weekly + hcg? if labs are good your issue might be androgen receptor decentization.. being on too high T levels for years straight and then you start losing effects and need higher dose to reach same effect. it's just speculation but even dr. crisler said his patients who used steroids in the past need higher dose and higher levels. my opinion is your nuts AI dose caught up to you now.. if you supress estrogen too much you won't have libido and sex drive and high estrogen usually helps libido (but harms erections for some unfortunately)

Oldpowerlifter · Jul 9, 2018

Just quickly looking at one lab they were TT 1100 and FT 281

That same lab my DHEA was only 156. but it seems adding in 25mg DHEA AM And PM pushed my E2 up so I’m all over place with E2. Too low or too high.

Not sure if I’d have androgen receptor issues. Even dropping my T To 160mg week in past year I don’t lose anything at gym or energy wise. It has been a pleasant surprise to be able to drop T Dose and not suffer in workouts.

madman · Jul 9, 2018

lowe2sucks said:
what were your total and free t on 200mg weekly + hcg? if labs are good your issue might be androgen receptor decentization.. being on too high T levels for years straight and then you start losing effects and need higher dose to reach same effect. it's just speculation but even dr. crisler said his patients who used steroids in the past need higher dose and higher levels. my opinion is your nuts AI dose caught up to you now.. if you supress estrogen too much you won't have libido and sex drive and high estrogen usually helps libido (but harms erections for some unfortunately)

Regarding desensitization of the AR when one uses/abuses testosterone in high doses 400-600mg/week (recreational bodybuilders) or on the extreme end 1000+mg/week (amateur/professional bodybuilders) than it seems possible but as far as 200mg/week (top end of trt and not needed by many).....highly doubtful!

Oldpowerlifter · Jul 9, 2018

Yikes never never been in those ranges. I’d be scared. I’m a big guy always have been. I think I’d blow up like a monster if I ever did 400mg week.

I’ve been a 230-245 pound mesomorph since I was 17. Prior to TRT I had so many health issues and illness that I crept up to 270 during a time I couldn’t train due to medical disaster. Getting on HRT by itself before I could even train again got me back to 235-240 I think. It was weird but the doctors said good example of the body knows it’s homeostasis point. I was still soft though. Once I recovered enough to start lifting again, doing MMA and yoga I jumped to 245 and my bodyfat dropped to 7% dunk tank. At a later point I was 248 and 10% via Dexa scan. Since I was seeing those results at 200mg there was no need to do 300 or 400mg as some of my friends do on TRT with liberal doctors or clinics that will give 300mg a week. My motivation for lifting has been for crap the last few years during this libido/estrogen saga but I still continue to train 6 days a week just by sheer willpower and it being a lifelong habit. I’ll admit in years past before this saga started hearing how my friends do 300-400mg on “TRT” it could sound appealing/tempting to “fire it up” but if I am 245 on 200mg I was like I wouldn’t want to be 255 or 265 by doubling my dose??! No need to be that big and I’d look like a freak. At this point I’d like to get the E2 and libido squared away and drop to 225-230 for a lighter lean “fighting weight” and longevity, maybe less joint pains as I age and such.

lowe2sucks · Jul 9, 2018

^300-400mg is not trt.. even 200mg is kinda light cycle than trt. trt is to bring up ones testosterone to normal levels that he would have in his age if he would be able to produce that testosterone naturally. but he can't so he needs to take hormone. lets say 50 year old takes 200mg trt and that puts his T levels to same as when he was 20 year old. Is it TRT? no it's steroid usage.. if he would only use dosage that is required to bring him to level that he would be able to produce naturally at 50 but for some reason can't than he is doing TRT right way.
as far as you I don't see any abuse just regular trt plus which is "ok" if you are willing to monitor your labs and do frequent blood donations. but arimidex dose is from hell

Oldpowerlifter · Jul 9, 2018

Yea I won’t go higher and frankly if we can dial in my E2 and get my libido and motivation back, I’ll be fine staying at 160mg week. I’d even try a little lower if Mariano suggests it.

lowe2sucks · Jul 9, 2018

^if you decide to lower dose don't go straight from 200mg to 160mg. i've read in dr Crisler book that you should reduce dose step by step (and same works for increase). like 200mg to 180mg and stay there for few weeks and then to 160 if you desire. i think he actually recommended to increase or decrease by no more then 10mg at a time

Oldpowerlifter · Jul 9, 2018

I’ve been 160 for a while. Had no issues at all going 200 to 160. As I said I was and continue to be surprised that it hasn’t hurt me in the gym at all. Even with what now is super high E2 (49 on ultra sensitive). I just swung from low ass E2 (less than 6 on one lab and 14 ultra sensitive on a later one) to high (39) and now even higher ! Even though 39 was with 160 T And HCG with no AI. and now I’ve been on .5 adex twice a week and it went higher not lower but I added DHEA upon the advice of everyone on Crislers board. Adding DHEA backfired in my case.

Vince · Jul 10, 2018

Oldpowerlifter said:
Adding DHEA backfired in my case.

It seems like a lot of men have issues with DHEA, it convert Testosterone into estrogen in men. I do supplement with 25mg to keep my levels in a good range and thankfully I never needed an AI.

Oldpowerlifter · Apr 12, 2019

Old thread but still chasing my tail trying to get my libido and runners high back. I’ve got my E2 back to 28 and get occasional wood during sleep which wasn’t happening before. Have tried a variety of supps and adjustments with no luck turning back on libdio, runners high, feeling the pleasure of an orgasm, etc.

Next stop is potentially testing waters with Sinemet, Selegaline and/or Wellbutrin.

If anyone happens to read this and has experience with any of those as far as libido and pleasure I’d love to hear your experiences.

Libido good pre/post TRT- Years later crashes

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