Clomid/low t new user

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super

New Member
TL:DR..

37yr old male suspected low t got tested and is in deed low 212, put myself basically on prescribed clomid 3 weeks ago, doing better but not good. first ENDO appointment tomorrow need advice to i dont go in "unarmed"

not against TRT but really dont like idea of lifelong commitment but this is really affecting my lfe in a terrible way. please help.



Ok,

little back story... in the begining of march I was really sick, took OTC allergy medication and couldnt sleep
(also had a sick 2 year old and I work rotating 12 hour shifts, so sleep deprived as it was) ended up staying up 4 days straight and wound up in ER with suicidal thoughts and depression (no history of mental illness)

they sent me away with xanex and benadryl to help sleep, went home took benadryl and didnt work.. took xanex and slept 14 hours... next day went to family doc and he put me on SSRI zoloft... took that for 18 days and it made everything worse, crazy anxiety, depression and more insomnia which he just threw more sleeping pills at... tried them all and they had little to no effect.. had to take leave from work.. took my self off the zoloft and with in 3 days felt considerably better but far from 100%... had to continue to take benzos to sleep along with mirtrazapine.. sleep got a lil better (4-5 hours broken).. crazy mood swings tho, i could feel my mood literally shift within minutes..

Finally a guy at work pulled me aside and said have i had my testosterone checked? i said no.... which led me to research low T and pretty much had all symptoms... Went to doctor and had them run a T test... came back at 212 (range 175-750) which put me at normal.. im 38yrs old.... I argued that it wasnt even close to what my level should be for normal, along with symptoms.

This is where clomid comes in..... 3 years ago me and my wife were trying to have a baby and failing.. so we went to fertility doc. I had low sperm count and motility so he put me on clomid .25mg twice a week. I took the clomid... and 3 months later we had a successful conception.. stopped clomid. I never put the two and two together til I had test results showing low Test. after lots of research and talking to friends that were in the AAS world it seemed logical to try clomid first especially since i have taken it in the past with no ill side effects. So i go to doc and try to get him to prescribe clomid... and he didnt even know what clomid was.. Thankfully he agreed to talk to an ENDO he knew and would get back to me.(i was very assertive and desperate. this issue was affecting all my aspects of life and was very scary.. he called me on the phone on the way home. He spoke to endo and she agreed it was worth a try and had a 50% success rate using it. I also had him give me a referral to see her.

OK sorry for the book...
OK we are about 19 days into taking clomid 25mg every day (missed two doses) Im feeling ALOT better..

sleep is better but not perfect weaned off priscription sleeping pill since starting clomid took last 2 nights ago

anxiety is way less, havnt taken a benzo since 2 days after starting clomid.

depression is alot better... it was a 8-10 before clomid now 2-4.

still fatigued, some yawning but energy has increased a little bit.

one symptom that has remained since day one is ear ringing. loudest when relaxing but annoying as hell!!!!

Not much for libido.. but never really had much of one.. which makes me think i was low t whole life (late puberty, higher voice, not much body hair)

Erections before clomid took a min or two to get it up, now its better but still a lil sluggish..

morning wood... I always thought these were something you got in your teens and then never again...havnt had morning wood in a LONG Time. but now on clomid last few days been getting them again. again learning alot about male health i never knew about!!

SO now that you read my book...

I have my first ENDO appointment tomorrow and wondering what i should be prepared for and what i should ask/test to be done??

I only got a 30 day supply of clomid and im scared i run out i was "crash" and be back where i was square one? (i cant go back to that place it was very dark and not good)

these are test i believe i should ask for tomorrow based on my reading thus far... any input would be great!

test
Test total =
Free test =
LH =
FSH =
DHEA-S =
E2 sensative=
SHBG =
Hematocrit =
TSH =
free t3
free t4

my stats

37 male
195 lbs (was 217lbs back in march before this ordeal..lost 22 lbs from this)
never really lift weights, try to stay active but my job as a equipment op has made me lazy)
suspected low T whole life
Concussion from motorcycle accident in 2010.. not sure it plays a part but figured it should be noted)



please any insite.. the ENDO is a female so not sure how that will play.. took me 3 weeks to get in her and as im sure most in here Time is of the essence to get me at least back to functional...
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor
Be prepared for an ill informed Dr/Endo/whatever...if lifelong commitment bothers you, that's what this is if you get on Testosterone...may not be the thing you want to do. The only way having long-term success is injections you do yourself. Eve4rything else...gels/creams/pellets/Clomid have rather low success rates and you may decide that the life long portion isn't what you want to do.

What I would suggest is you research what's called a restart or PCT, post cycle therapy. You're already using Clomid, PCT my add in some HCG and another drug or two but if your LH and FSH are low/very low, you'd be a poor candidate for this.
 

super

New Member
Yep i have researched PCT/restart.. thats why im wondering if i just need a restart? something happened in march im just not not sure what, whether it was sleep deprivation, sickness, cold medication but something happened that screwed me up... I will make sure to get LH and FSH tested. but do you think the test will be skewed since ive been on clomid for three weeks? in hindsight i wish i would of got all the test prior to clomid but that is in the past.
 
I don't know what your financial situation is, but I would be impressed if you found an endo that actually knows how to run a proper clomid restart, or is at least willing to cooperate and figure it out with you. Failing that, I'd recommend reaching out to Defy Medical, as they have plenty of experience with such protocols. The only issue is that it's all out of pocket, which can be an issue for many. In any case, I am impressed that benadryl did not put your lights out. I have taken both, benadryl and xanax, and even a low dose of benadryl has a more potent hypnotic effect on me than a higher dose of alprazolam.
 

super

New Member
yea it didnt do anything.... temazapam, trazodone, benedryl, ambien, clonazapam.... and a couple others i cant remember.... didnt do anything i was in really bad shape some kind of hormonal crash i cant seem to find any info or like accounts of..
Im willing to pay out of pocket, so Defy might be the answer. I will report back what the endo says tomorrow. She is the one who gave the go ahead to the DR to prescribe it so i hope she is well informed.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
yea it didnt do anything.... temazapam, trazodone, benedryl, ambien, clonazapam.... and a couple others i cant remember.... didnt do anything i was in really bad shape some kind of hormonal crash i cant seem to find any info or like accounts of..
Im willing to pay out of pocket, so Defy might be the answer. I will report back what the endo says tomorrow. She is the one who gave the go ahead to the DR to prescribe it so i hope she is well informed.
Pay particular attention to her approach to estradiol management. I'm not saying you need to be on an AI, but I'm certainly not saying you won't need one. E2 control is a big part of the game when it comes to Clomid protocols. It can rise quickly and significantly; regular lab oversight is a must.

All the best.
 

super

New Member
Pay particular attention to her approach to estradiol management. I'm not saying you need to be on an AI, but I'm certainly not saying you won't need one. E2 control is a big part of the game when it comes to Clomid protocols. It can rise quickly and significantly; regular lab oversight is a must.

All the best.


ty for the reply. i will make sure she talks about estradiol. and make sure blood test contains a e2 sensative test.
 

super

New Member
ty for the reply. i will make sure she talks about estradiol. and make sure blood test contains a e2 sensative test.
'

Ok got back from ENdo,

she was very understanding and seemed a little educated but still threw some red flags...

wasnt to concerned with estrodial and says that the clomid will "probably" skew the results i insisted we test for it anyways...

said my 212 testosterone level was lower but still fell in lab range (175-750) I insisted that it is low no matter where else in the world you look especially for 37 yr old.... she agreed that higher level might alleviate my problems (i also emphasized how much better ive been feeling on the clomid and that the test results will probably show that)

she was fine with the idea of admisteration of TRT if it comes to that and Id have my choice of methods,, i.e injectables, creams, pellets, gels..

fine with idea that I could try clomid long term...

test ordered to blood draw tomorrow at 8am

estradial ultra sensitive
ferritin, blood
FSH blood
LH blood
Prolactin Blood
Special Test, chemistry not sure what this is..
T5 Free Throxine Free Blood
Testosterone, Free Blood


I notice that testosterone total isnt on the test? should i be concerned??

i know that she mention that SHBG would be shown on the free testosterone test...
 
'

Ok got back from ENdo,

she was very understanding and seemed a little educated but still threw some red flags...

wasnt to concerned with estrodial and says that the clomid will "probably" skew the results i insisted we test for it anyways...

said my 212 testosterone level was lower but still fell in lab range (175-750) I insisted that it is low no matter where else in the world you look especially for 37 yr old.... she agreed that higher level might alleviate my problems (i also emphasized how much better ive been feeling on the clomid and that the test results will probably show that)

she was fine with the idea of admisteration of TRT if it comes to that and Id have my choice of methods,, i.e injectables, creams, pellets, gels..

fine with idea that I could try clomid long term...

test ordered to blood draw tomorrow at 8am

estradial ultra sensitive
ferritin, blood
FSH blood
LH blood
Prolactin Blood
Special Test, chemistry not sure what this is..
T5 Free Throxine Free Blood
Testosterone, Free Blood


I notice that testosterone total isnt on the test? should i be concerned??

i know that she mention that SHBG would be shown on the free testosterone test...

Are you using Quest Labs? I remember the first time I had my testosterone checked with them, total t, free t, and shbg came back as results for the same test, could it be that the free test lab will actually show all 3? If you got the lab codes, you would be able to research this. Nonetheless, it is great that she is well informed and willing to help, despite the comment about the E2 test. It could be that she is confusing the standard estradiol test with the ultra sensitive. In the former, just about anything bearing a resemblance to estrogen (like serms) will falsely elevate the result. The purpose of the ultra sensitive is to precisely determine e2 levels, without interference from other substances.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
'

Ok got back from ENdo,

she was very understanding and seemed a little educated but still threw some red flags...

wasnt to concerned with estrodial and says that the clomid will "probably" skew the results i insisted we test for it anyways...

said my 212 testosterone level was lower but still fell in lab range (175-750) I insisted that it is low no matter where else in the world you look especially for 37 yr old.... she agreed that higher level might alleviate my problems (i also emphasized how much better ive been feeling on the clomid and that the test results will probably show that)

she was fine with the idea of admisteration of TRT if it comes to that and Id have my choice of methods,, i.e injectables, creams, pellets, gels..

fine with idea that I could try clomid long term...

test ordered to blood draw tomorrow at 8am

estradial ultra sensitive
ferritin, blood
FSH blood
LH blood
Prolactin Blood
Special Test, chemistry not sure what this is..
T5 Free Throxine Free Blood
Testosterone, Free Blood


I notice that testosterone total isnt on the test? should i be concerned??

i know that she mention that SHBG would be shown on the free testosterone test...

You are moving in the right direction. You will, of course, have to remain your own, best advocate through the process as it unfolds; we all do. I'm glad she's open to your suggestions and opinions. So many doctors aren't.
 

super

New Member
You are moving in the right direction. You will, of course, have to remain your own, best advocate through the process as it unfolds; we all do. I'm glad she's open to your suggestions and opinions. So many doctors aren't.



Yea hopefully she stays that way.


another note... (to me a break through) THe ENDO asked if i could try to get the labs from the fertility doctor to compare to tomorrows test. SO this after noon i went there and was actually able to get them from 2013! he didnt test for everything but its something..

LH 2.4 mlU/mL (1.2-8.6)
FSH 6.0 mlU/mL (1.3-19.3)
TSH 2.87 uiU/mL (no range provided)
T4 Free .8ng/dL (no range provided)
Prolactin 7.3 ng/mL (no range provided)
TEST TOTAL 295 ng/mL (no range provided)


So this proves what i thought all along that ive been LOW T for awhile now and something cause me to crash.
 

super

New Member
im using the hospitals lab.. not sure who they go through. I agree about your thoughts of the E2, hopefully she will be more understanding when the test results come.
 

super

New Member
Yea hopefully she stays that way.


another note... (to me a break through) THe ENDO asked if i could try to get the labs from the fertility doctor to compare to tomorrows test. SO this after noon i went there and was actually able to get them from 2013! he didnt test for everything but its something..

LH 2.4 mlU/mL (1.2-8.6)
FSH 6.0 mlU/mL (1.3-19.3)
TSH 2.87 uiU/mL (no range provided)
T4 Free .8ng/dL (no range provided)
Prolactin 7.3 ng/mL (no range provided)
TEST TOTAL 295 ng/mL (no range provided)


So this proves what i thought all along that ive been LOW T for awhile now and something cause me to crash.


Do these results from 2013 show that im probably secondary???
 

JPB

Member
I noticed your first post regarding concussion. Traumatic brain injury can indeed affect your HPTA and hormonal function. Your posted labs showing LH on the low side of normal, which suggests secondary, thus I would think Clomid would be helpful. Also regarding your history of benzodiazepines, are you now done with those? Are any opiates in the picture?
 

super

New Member
I noticed your first post regarding concussion. Traumatic brain injury can indeed affect your HPTA and hormonal function. Your posted labs showing LH on the low side of normal, which suggests secondary, thus I would think Clomid would be helpful. Also regarding your history of benzodiazepines, are you now done with those? Are any opiates in the picture?

Thanks for reply,
I really don't have a history of benzos the first time taking xanex was in march after not being able to sleep for four days... I then went on the clonazapam in may because it had a longer half life so the theory was i would sleep better... it did work but was still masking my underlying problem of low T.. once I started clomid I stopped the clonazapam.. also haven't had an opiate since an appendectomy in 2014.. and previous in 2010 from motorcycle accident that caused concussion amongst other trauma.. so short benzo use (less then 4 months) and no long term (less then 2 months) of opiates.
 

super

New Member
Test results so far..

t4 Free .81 ng/dL
ferritin blood 93.1 ng/mL
prolactin blood 8.6 ng/mL
LH 4.3
FSH 7.3 miU/ml


the results didnt give me any ranges... still waiting for other test... like e2 sensative and free test..

anything i can decipher from the test i have?

it will be 4 weeks on wednesday of 25mg ED of clomid and.. symptoms are kinda at a stale mate...

better then before clomid but far from good
still sleep problems
depression
fatigue
anxiety
no libido
no ed problems thankfully

im not sure clomid is the answer yet but when i do get some sleep ie more then 5 hours in a row i feel alot better the next day

wish i could just get three or four of those days in a row. seems like i get a decent sleep every other day

i need something to change this is really screwing my career up!

any insight would be greatly appreciated!
 

super

New Member
Just got total test lvl in 787ng/ dl normal range 250-1100

So clomid must be working but still waiting for sensitive e2 test

Only got 4 hours of sleep last night and feel like absolute shit today. Really bad.
Depressed
Anxious/worried
Extreme fatigued
 
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