Supplement List - Opinions Welcomed

psaufan · Jul 9, 2017

Here is a lit of the supplements I take daily. Some are standard and some are anti-imflamatory-related, as I have a herniated disc in my lower back. Lastly, I probably read somewhere that some of them may help with working out.

I am looking for opinions to see if any of these supplements aid or hinder TRT supplementation...do any increase or decrease estradiol? Etc...

Fish Oil 1000 mg x 2
Milk Thistle 250 mg x 2
D3 2000 iu
Quercetin 800 mg x 2
Tumeric 1500 mg
Garlic 400 mg
Resveratol 500 mg
Diindolymethane 100 mg
New Chapter Multi Vitamin
Ginko Biloba 120 mg
Tart Cherry 1000 mg
Dandelion Root 520 mg
NAC 600 mg x 2
Pygeum 500 mg x 2
Align Probiotic
Cialis 5 mg
Lecithin 1200 mg
Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000 mg
L'Arginine 1000 mg
Magnesium 450 mg x 2
Zinc 30 mg x 2

Holy cow...that seems like a lot. Thoughts and opinions?

Thanks...

psaufan · Jul 9, 2017

Blackhawk said:
I hope these ideas are not too off your intended topic, but related in my mind:

I also question whether if you are on TRT if "natural" testosterone boosters do anything useful since HPTA axis is shut down. Logically, seems like the point becomes moot as T production is pretty much entirely overridden by TRT

Estrogen clearing might still be enhanced through diet and supplementation if you need to lower E2, I don't know. Before TRT I was really concerned with this stuff, perhaps without actual good reason, more based on "estrogen=bad" theoretical hype for men.

Anyway, I made up a list of estrogen clearing foods back then based on a number of disparate sources. I figured they are all just good food anyway, so not too concerned about negative effects eating any in reasonable quantities:

Don't know if this is helpful or not for us if on TRT:

Berries
Grapes
Orange
Lemon
lime
arugula
mustardgreens
radish/daikon
celery
parsley
cabbage
kale
collards
onions
brusselsprouts
beets
rutabagas
turnips
oliveoil
coconutoil
raweggs
oats
almonds
cashews
macademia
brazil
chia

Sorry I don't have sources for all of this, just a list compiled from reading around the web.

So not to sidetrack from your supplement list too much, but the other question I have is whether while on TRT, eating soy, flax, beer/hops etc can throw your T/E2 balance out of whack. I still avoid excess of these estrogenic foods anyway.. I suspect if my E2 is low on TRT, they might help to bring it up a bit or vice versa, avoid if it is high.

DIM also came up, but seems is controversial in terms of estrogen clearing effects for men.

So a question: Why Pumpkin seed oil? In terms of fat, it seems very difficult to eat a diet too low in PUFA, and pumpkin seed is essentially concentrated Omega 6, is it not?

I take the pumpkin seed oil as I read it was good for prostate health.

As for the other supplements, the I take the Dandelion Root and Milk Thistle as it is supposed to help shed water. I also read that DIM helps with estrogen, but as you state, the proof is iffy.

None of the other supplements are being taken specifically for my TRT treatment. It is just a list that I have compiled over the year for one reason or another.

I am wanting to see if any of them work against what TRT does for us.

Thanks for your input and for that list of estrogen-clearing foods!

Nelson Vergel · Jul 9, 2017

My humble opinion:

Fish Oil 1000 mg x 2
OK

Milk Thistle 250 mg x 2
Not proven to work to decrease liver enzymes. TRT is not liver toxic. NAC is a better option since it may have HDL and glutathione benefits.

D3 2000 iu
OK. Most people need 5,000 IU

Quercetin 800 mg x 2
Umm, too many claims. It may interact with medications.

Tumeric 1500 mg
Good antioxidant. It can cause gut issues and oral forms are really not absorbed well.

Garlic 400 mg
If you want to repel vampires.

Resveratol 500 mg
Proven to be a scam of scientists. Merck dropped its research.

Diindolymethane 100 mg
For estradiol? Postate?

New Chapter Multi Vitamin
OK

Ginko Biloba 120 mg
Not proven to do much for cognitive function.

Tart Cherry 1000 mg
For urinary track infections?

Dandelion Root 520 mg
Why? Not proven to do anything. https://examine.com/nutrition/dandelion/

NAC 600 mg x 2
OK

Pygeum 500 mg x 2
Why?

Align Probiotic
OK

Cialis 5 mg
OK

Lecithin 1200 mg
Waste of money

Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000 mg
Good source of zinc. Why oil?

L'Arginine 1000 mg
Citrulline is better.

Magnesium 450 mg x 2
OK but be careful with loose stools

Zinc 30 mg x 2
1 is all you need with 3 mg copper

Nelson Vergel · Jul 9, 2017

What Supplements Best Support TRT?

psaufan · Jul 10, 2017

Nelson Vergel said:
My humble opinion:

Fish Oil 1000 mg x 2
OK

Milk Thistle 250 mg x 2
Not proven to work to decrease liver enzymes. TRT is not liver toxic. NAC is a better option since it may have HDL and glutathione benefits.

D3 2000 iu
OK. Most people need 5,000 IU

Quercetin 800 mg x 2
Umm, too many claims. It may interact with medications.

Tumeric 1500 mg
Good antioxidant. It can cause gut issues and oral forms are really not absorbed well.

Garlic 400 mg
If you want to repel vampires.

Resveratol 500 mg
Proven to be a scam of scientists. Merck dropped its research.

Diindolymethane 100 mg
For estradiol? Postate?

New Chapter Multi Vitamin
OK

Ginko Biloba 120 mg
Not proven to do much for cognitive function.

Tart Cherry 1000 mg
For urinary track infections?

Dandelion Root 520 mg
Why? Not proven to do anything. https://examine.com/nutrition/dandelion/

NAC 600 mg x 2
OK

Pygeum 500 mg x 2
Why?

Align Probiotic
OK

Cialis 5 mg
OK

Lecithin 1200 mg
Waste of money

Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000 mg
Good source of zinc. Why oil?

L'Arginine 1000 mg
Citrulline is better.

Magnesium 450 mg x 2
OK but be careful with loose stools

Zinc 30 mg x 2
1 is all you need with 3 mg copper

Thanks so much for your input...I have made changes to my supplement protocol!

Thanks again...

ScottM · Jul 10, 2017

Adding my delayed $0.02

First a three part question, why so many, how did you discover these, and did you ask anyone?

That's quite the list and I am always hesitant to over supplement as these often aren't well studied for their primary benefit. Much less how they interact with each other or anything else you may be taking, either supplement, medicine, food, drink, inhaling, or otherwise coming in contact with.

Fish Oil 1000 mg x 2
Good, but make sure you're using a high quality product. I have found a lot of fishy fish oils out there, pun intended. You could also consider Krill oil.

Milk Thistle 250 mg x 2
Waste, this is a supplement popularized by body builders who read online about how crucial PCT is. Well managed TRT has not been shown to be hepatotoxic.

D3 2000 iu
Good, but depending on your labs you may need to up the dose. If you're low consider 10,000ius for 15-30 days followed by 5000 iu PO qd.

Quercetin 800 mg x 2
Caution, its only been shown to mildly help some men with prostate issues and not really any of the important ones like urinary flow.

Tumeric 1500 mg
OK. I've read some good things about it for cholesterol, not impressed with much of the other research.

Garlic 400 mg
Wear 3 cloves around your neck and jump on one foot to cure most diseases. Obviously joking here.

Resveratol 500 mg
One of the few that is very well studied, unfortunately all studies point to it being useless.

Diindolymethane 100 mg
I am a proponent of DIM, personally I take 200mg. I am a believer in its ability to help usher E down the path to good E and T away from the path of DHT.

New Chapter Multi Vitamin
Good, and natural, so kudos.

Ginko Biloba 120 mg
This is by and large just diller.

Tart Cherry 1000 mg
Jury is out, personally I'd save my money, but it is cheap and the juice is delicious imo so why not?

Dandelion Root 520 mg
I've only heard of body building using this stuff to shed water before shows, would not recommend as it works by inducing an electrolyte imbalance.

NAC 600 mg x 2
Good, especially for liver/respiratory.

Pygeum 500 mg x 2
This has been shown to work for flow issues related to BPH, but there are better medicines.

Align Probiotic
Good

Cialis 5 mg
High Five

Lecithin 1200 mg
Are you IV tube fed? If so might help, if not, don't need.

Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000 mg
Personally I'd hit the seeds themselves, keeps me satisfied so I don't eat crap.

L'Arginine 1000 mg
Concur, Citrulline is better.

Magnesium 450 mg x 2
Is your mag low? Are you on a PPI?

Zinc 30 mg x 2
Concur, 1 is all you need with 3 mg copper. Are you taking a zinc supp and a mag supp? Or ZMA?

-Scott
-Telthera

Gman86 · Jul 10, 2017

Can I ask what brand of DIM you use ScottM?

ScottM · Jul 10, 2017

Absolutely, I vary based on what I have on hand in the office and if I remember to order for myself with everything going on. Sometimes I will order it compounded from APS, Empower, United, etc. Other times I grab a bottle of the BioTe brand.

For our patients it is always compounded. For OTC Nature's way is a popular brand.

-Scott
-Telthera

Gman86 said:
Can I ask what brand of DIM you use ScottM?

Gman86 · Jul 10, 2017

Awesome, thanks Scott. I've heard good things about Nature's way DIM, I think I'll order that and then talk to Defy about maybe getting it compounded by Empower during my next follow up.

Supplement List - Opinions Welcomed

psaufan

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psaufan

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Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com

psaufan

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ScottM

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Gman86

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ScottM

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Gman86

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