1. #1

    Clomid Monotherapy - Gyno Developing, Help!

    Hello


    I have been on clomid monetherapy for 3 months, 12mg eod. Sadly im experiencing gynocomastia which I guess is because of elevated e2? Im not sure what would be the best to aid in this neither is my doctor. We are discussing whether to go clomid+tamoxifen or clomid+raloxifen or clomid+anastrozel or clomid+letrozole.


    Could some1 please help me what to add to my 12mg eod of clomid? If you have any better suggestions please tell!


    All help are much appreciated!

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  3. #2
    First of all, we're glad you joined Excelmale, despite the circumstances that brought you here. How sure are you this is gyno? Can you describe what it is that you're dealing with? What is your estradiol sensitive level, and how much anastrozole, if any, are you taking (and how often)? Your total testosterone level? When did this all present?
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoastWatcher View Post
    First of all, we're glad you joined Excelmale, despite the circumstances that brought you here. How sure are you this is gyno? Can you describe what it is that you're dealing with? What is your estradiol sensitive level, and how much anastrozole, if any, are you taking (and how often)? Your total testosterone level? When did this all present?
    My doctor and I are 100% sure its gyno. Atm im only at 12mg clomid eod, been for 3 months so far. Not taking any AI etc, just clomid only. My e2 and t was very low before I started clomid tho. I havent got new bloods since some problems atm, so thats why im wondering what the usual protocol is? Gyno is getting worse and worse atm.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by zariph View Post
    My doctor and I are 100% sure its gyno. Atm im only at 12mg clomid eod, been for 3 months so far. Not taking any AI etc, just clomid only. My e2 and t was very low before I started clomid tho. I havent got new bloods since some problems atm, so thats why im wondering what the usual protocol is? Gyno is getting worse and worse atm.
    Three months of Clomid and no lab results to monitor progress during that time frame? Keeping a tight grip on estradiol with the sensitive lab test is an essential part of managing a Clomid protocol. Estradiol can leap to the heavens within a very few weeks of beginning therapy. Once it does, Gyno can set in.

    An important question: when you and your doctor examine your nipples and breast area, what do you feel? Is it all soft tissue? Or do you notice hard/harder pellet-like lumps beneath/below/around the nipple area?
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

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    That's insane. To the best of my knowledge, gyno from clomid is unheard of. True, it doesn't block estrogen in breast tissue nearly as well as tamoxifen, but it should enough to prevent you from getting gyno. I have an interesting hypothesis that your dose was simultaneously high enough to cause a significant boost in testosterone (and consequently aromatization) and too low to effectively inhibit activation of E2 receptors in the breast tissue. Either that, or you're just incredibly gyno-prone. Tamoxifen is almost always the first line of treatment against early stage gyno. Aromatase inhibitors are less effective when countering E2 from SERMs, so I don't think there's any question here that Nolvadex is the way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoastWatcher View Post
    Three months of Clomid and no lab results to monitor progress during that time frame? Keeping a tight grip on estradiol with the sensitive lab test is an essential part of managing a Clomid protocol. Estradiol can leap to the heavens within a very few weeks of beginning therapy. Once it does, Gyno can set in.

    An important question: when you and your doctor examine your nipples and breast area, what do you feel? Is it all soft tissue? Or do you notice hard/harder pellet-like lumps beneath/below/around the nipple area?
    I feel a hard lump but the last few weeks it has been growing and the "newer" part if I can say so, is more soft

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbsoluteZ3R0 View Post
    That's insane. To the best of my knowledge, gyno from clomid is unheard of. True, it doesn't block estrogen in breast tissue nearly as well as tamoxifen, but it should enough to prevent you from getting gyno. I have an interesting hypothesis that your dose was simultaneously high enough to cause a significant boost in testosterone (and consequently aromatization) and too low to effectively inhibit activation of E2 receptors in the breast tissue. Either that, or you're just incredibly gyno-prone. Tamoxifen is almost always the first line of treatment against early stage gyno. Aromatase inhibitors are less effective when countering E2 from SERMs, so I don't think there's any question here that Nolvadex is the way to go.
    Isnt stacking 2 serms a really bad idea? I've read this on another forum

  9. #8
    If you detect lumps you need a surgical consultation.
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by zariph View Post
    Isnt stacking 2 serms a really bad idea? I've read this on another forum
    Stop the Clomid. Start tamoxifen. Find a doctor who understands androgen protocols. This should never have happened. You deserve better care.
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoastWatcher View Post
    Stop the Clomid. Start tamoxifen. Find a doctor who understands androgen protocols. This should never have happened. You deserve better care.
    Dude I really appreciate your help!

    why tamoxifen instead of raloxifen?
    Also can I just stop clomid and do tamoxifen with tapering off or adding any AI? Lastly for how long and which dose do you recommen tamoxifen(or ralox)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zariph View Post
    Dude I really appreciate your help!

    why tamoxifen instead of raloxifen?
    Also can I just stop clomid and do tamoxifen with tapering off or adding any AI? Lastly for how long and which dose do you recommen tamoxifen(or ralox)
    Raloxifene works but so many more people have used Nolvadex is tried and true and the effects are relatively well-known compared to raloxifene. To answer your question earlier, plenty of bodybuilders take clomid and nolvadex together to get the best of both worlds post cycle, but I don't recommend it at all. Just come off of Clomid and take Nolvadex. You don't need to taper off clomid or add an AI. Nolvadex works similarly as clomid but with less central effects. The most common dose is 20mg a day an less you have legit, developed gyno, in which case surgery is the only thing that will take care of it.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by AbsoluteZ3R0 View Post
    Raloxifene works but so many more people have used Nolvadex is tried and true and the effects are relatively well-known compared to raloxifene. To answer your question earlier, plenty of bodybuilders take clomid and nolvadex together to get the best of both worlds post cycle, but I don't recommend it at all. Just come off of Clomid and take Nolvadex. You don't need to taper off clomid or add an AI. Nolvadex works similarly as clomid but with less central effects. The most common dose is 20mg a day an less you have legit, developed gyno, in which case surgery is the only thing that will take care of it.
    Very good advice. The lumps you report are ominous. A surgical consultation may be necessary.
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbsoluteZ3R0 View Post
    Raloxifene works but so many more people have used Nolvadex is tried and true and the effects are relatively well-known compared to raloxifene. To answer your question earlier, plenty of bodybuilders take clomid and nolvadex together to get the best of both worlds post cycle, but I don't recommend it at all. Just come off of Clomid and take Nolvadex. You don't need to taper off clomid or add an AI. Nolvadex works similarly as clomid but with less central effects. The most common dose is 20mg a day an less you have legit, developed gyno, in which case surgery is the only thing that will take care of it.
    okay thank you!

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