High E2 and Poor Sleep Correlation

meanbreen · Jun 13, 2017

I know I will get mixed responses here - half the people think that high estradiol is the root of all evil and the other half thinks that it is harmless!

I began TRT roughly 7 weeks ago. Protocol is through Defy - 70mg T-Cyp, 500iu HCG, both E3.5D. I have not had BW done since beginning treatment, though I plan to in the next week or so because I think that my levels should be stable by now.

Long story short, I am feeling so much better. Good erections, increased libido, decreased anxiety. Even gastro symptoms seem to be improving ever so slightly (long history there). I was sleeping amazing each night around the one month mark. However, in the last few weeks, my sleep has been miserable. I really can't pinpoint it. I wake up all during the night. Sleep Apnea has been ruled out. I have seen a few people say that high E2 can cause these insomnia symptoms. I also have been feeling pretty bloated lately. If I take my wedding ring off, there is a permanent red outline when before there was none (I'm sure the wife doesn't mind this part LOL). I just am curious to see how common it is for members here to have their sleep being disturbed by elevated E2.

BTW-I was initially prescribed .125 Arimidex E3.5D but I chose to play it conservative and not take it (after my first week of taking it). I want to be on TRT forever so I want to see how my body naturally aromatizes.

Vince Carter · Jun 13, 2017

Playing it by ear will not be a path to success. 7 weeks on a new protocol things are still fleshing themselves out, think marathon instead of a sprint. Could just be transient adjustments to the new hormonal environment.

meanbreen · Jun 13, 2017

Vince Carter said:
Playing it by ear will not be a path to success. 7 weeks on a new protocol things are still fleshing themselves out, think marathon instead of a sprint. Could just be transient adjustments to the new hormonal environment.

I agree, I'm not going to change anything up before seeing the BW. I was just curious if this was common or not.

lowe2sucks · Jun 14, 2017

I've had insomnia with low e2 more often then with high e2 honestly

Vince · Jun 14, 2017

I don't know if this pertains to you, If I take my DHEA before bed. I sleep terrible, so I take it early during the day.

Vince Carter · Jun 14, 2017

When my E was 50/60/70/88 I had what I called nite terror type dreams, like shoot out of bed stuff, but not insomnia but I am sleeping somewhat better now that E is down. May be nothing more than a general observation.

meanbreen · Jun 14, 2017

Thanks guys. Actually getting BW done tomorrow and I will post results in about a week. Besides the bad sleep I'm also feeling very puffy and dehydrated despite drinking water.

thething313 · Jun 14, 2017

Just to counter for the sake of argument, I have these exact issues with low E2. With higher E2 my sleep can be a little finicky, but it's also pretty bad with low E2 just in a different way. My point being that most people will have their own somewhat unique experience and it's tough to fully base off others....all that being said, if I had to guess I'd guess that your E2 is on the higher side only because I experience very similar side effects to what you've listed. As you said you're getting blood work tomorrow, which is smart. Definitely get that done and try to wait for the results before taking an anti e (I know how temping it can be when you feel crappy). Keep us updated!!!

meanbreen · Jun 14, 2017

thething313 said:
Just to counter for the sake of argument, I have these exact issues with low E2. With higher E2 my sleep can be a little finicky, but it's also pretty bad with low E2 just in a different way. My point being that most people will have their own somewhat unique experience and it's tough to fully base off others....all that being said, if I had to guess I'd guess that your E2 is on the higher side only because I experience very similar side effects to what you've listed. As you said you're getting blood work tomorrow, which is smart. Definitely get that done and try to wait for the results before taking an anti e (I know how temping it can be when you feel crappy). Keep us updated!!!

Will do and thanks for the reply! Yeah based on others' replies it might not be an E issue at all. We shall see though!

Weasel · Jun 15, 2017

in my experiences, high and low e2 symptoms are identical for me. including insomnia. I feel best with e2 around 45-50.

AbsoluteZ3R0 · Jun 15, 2017

I agree that the subjective differences between low and high E2 are very difficult to discern, but in my experience there is one dead giveaway when my E2 is low, and that's reduced peak strength while lifting weights. High E2 can make you feel sluggish and lethargic but when you get around to moving some weight, there's no physical handicap. Low E2 makes my workouts feel like what they would if I hadn't eaten in two days.

get2dichoppa · Jun 15, 2017

meanbreen said:
I know I will get mixed responses here - half the people think that high estradiol is the root of all evil and the other half thinks that it is harmless!

I began TRT roughly 7 weeks ago. Protocol is through Defy - 70mg T-Cyp, 500iu HCG, both E3.5D. I have not had BW done since beginning treatment, though I plan to in the next week or so because I think that my levels should be stable by now.

Long story short, I am feeling so much better. Good erections, increased libido, decreased anxiety. Even gastro symptoms seem to be improving ever so slightly (long history there). I was sleeping amazing each night around the one month mark. However, in the last few weeks, my sleep has been miserable. I really can't pinpoint it. I wake up all during the night. Sleep Apnea has been ruled out. I have seen a few people say that high E2 can cause these insomnia symptoms. I also have been feeling pretty bloated lately. If I take my wedding ring off, there is a permanent red outline when before there was none (I'm sure the wife doesn't mind this part LOL). I just am curious to see how common it is for members here to have their sleep being disturbed by elevated E2.

BTW-I was initially prescribed .125 Arimidex E3.5D but I chose to play it conservative and not take it (after my first week of taking it). I want to be on TRT forever so I want to see how my body naturally aromatizes.

Like everyone else has mentioned the difference between low E2 and high E2 is very tough to discern. It has been especially hard for me because even with E2 at 60 I had eczema & popping joints (low E2 symptoms) but also bloat and water retention and insomnia and ED (high E2 symptoms). My protocol now is 80mg per week w/ .5mg AI and I feel much better. As my E2 lowers my insomnia is dissapating, my bloat is gone, and my nightime erections are starting to return, although still weak. Still dealing with the clicking joints and dry skin so not really sure where my E2 is, but I agree with the high E2 and insomnia thing, at least in my case.

Dr Justin Saya MD · Jun 15, 2017

The impacts of estrogen (high or low) on brain neurotransmitters is complex and not fully quantified. Estrogen can increase excitatory neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine, which may be a possible mechanism for insomnia or increased anxiety in some folks.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...in-implications.pdf?origin=publication_detail

meanbreen · Jun 15, 2017

Dr Justin Saya said:
The impacts of estrogen (high or low) on brain neurotransmitters is complex and not fully quantified. Estrogen can increase excitatory neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine, which may be a possible mechanism for insomnia or increased anxiety in some folks.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...in-implications.pdf?origin=publication_detail

Thank you Dr. Saya, I am very interested to see what my blood tests show to see if E2 is even out of range or not.

Weasel · Jun 16, 2017

Dr Justin Saya said:
The impacts of estrogen (high or low) on brain neurotransmitters is complex and not fully quantified. Estrogen can increase excitatory neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine, which may be a possible mechanism for insomnia or increased anxiety in some folks.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...in-implications.pdf?origin=publication_detail

Doc,

have you saw any studies or had experiences where low e2 had the same effect on neurotransmitters?

Dr Justin Saya MD · Jun 16, 2017

Weasel said:
Doc,

have you saw any studies or had experiences where low e2 had the same effect on neurotransmitters?

Certainly in experience I've seen cases to suggest the same. That's the funny thing about hormones, as you all have seen here on the forum, is that the same exact hormone levels/changes can impact two individuals in completely different ways due to the vast number of covariables within each individual and additional variability between individuals (for example - not only will E2 impact neurotransmitter levels...but also testosterone, thyroid, adrenals, stress, sleep, diet, etc etc...AND the net cumulative effect of ALL of these variables isn't always 2 + 2 = 4)

meanbreen · Jun 22, 2017

For anyone interested, I posted my test results on a new post:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...rk-Since-Beginning-TRT-Injections-7-Weeks-Ago

E2 was only 27.1 so that was clearly not the issue. I am going to make an appt with Dr. Calkins and see about upping my dosage of T-cyp, and maybe going to more frequent injections to counteract my low shbg.

Dr Justin Saya MD · Jun 22, 2017

meanbreen said:
For anyone interested, I posted my test results on a new post:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...rk-Since-Beginning-TRT-Injections-7-Weeks-Ago

E2 was only 27.1 so that was clearly not the issue. I am going to make an appt with Dr. Calkins and see about upping my dosage of T-cyp, and maybe going to more frequent injections to counteract my low shbg.

Alas, E2 escapes being the boogeyman today 😉

meanbreen · Jun 22, 2017

Dr Justin Saya said:
Alas, E2 escapes being the boogeyman today 

Haha yeah I am done making E2 the scapegoat for all my TRT complications...

meanbreen · Jun 26, 2017

I took 25mg DHEA (oral) last night and slept like a baby! My last DHEA reading was only ~190. Do you think that by fixing my low DHEA I may fix my insomnia, or did I just sleep so good because my body is not used to taking this supplement, and its effects will wear off (kind of like how melatonin loses its effects the longer you take it)?

High E2 and Poor Sleep Correlation

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